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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faldrath View Post
    "the reviewer reviews himself"
    aka Wot I Think. As worried as I am that I might be criticizing individuals and not just their words, you've just proven that all I can do is criticize both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faldrath View Post
    when a review makes you see something you had missed, then it's valuable
    Yes, unquestionably, and I love being wrong because I get to learn something new and become a more powerful person. It's when they fail to consider something important to me that I question whether I belong in the journalist's audience.

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    And yet they act so consistently
    Only to conspiracy theorists like yourself Nalano. Still lets not head down that road, before we know it you might be telling us how immoral AAA titles are.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 13-06-2012 at 07:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
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  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Only to conspiracy theorists like yourself Nalano.
    You just got through saying how popular an opinion that was.

    Do you even read what you write or do you just like the verbal sparring?
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    And yet they act so consistently
    Thing is, without knowing the thought process behind the decision making , you end up being badly placed to make an informed comment about it.

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
    Thing is, without knowing the thought process behind the decision making , you end up being badly placed to make an informed comment about it.
    I've stated many a time that the structure of corporate investment that emphasizes short-term profits has a deleterious effect on long-term growth. They're consistent for a reason, and you don't need to be a goddamn conspiracy theorist to think so. But go ahead, tell me how much better informed you are.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    You just got through saying how popular an opinion that was.
    Vocal? yes. Mainsteam? Not so much. But certainly very vocal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I've stated many a time that the structure of corporate investment that emphasizes short-term profits has a deleterious effect on long-term growth. They're consistent for a reason, and you don't need to be a goddamn conspiracy theorist to think so. But go ahead, tell me how much better informed you are.
    But as has been pointed out before in previous threads you can't apply a flat rule to the actions of corporations. The motivators and actions of a corporation chasing Oil are a lot different than those of a corporation chasing your entertainment dollars. If EA don't invest in new product then their sales go down, because they are in competition with other publishers and other media for your leisure money. Most of the money they make gets ploughed back into making new product, and their new products needs to be of a standard/quality that will entice you.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 13-06-2012 at 08:16 PM.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

    Tradition is the tyranny of dead men

    Steam:Kadayi Origin: Kadayi GFWL: Kadayi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
    Gifmaster 4000 2014 Year of the Gif

    Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes....

  7. #27
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    This conversation restores my faith in the RPS community. Thanks fellas.

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbriandamage View Post
    This conversation restores my faith in the RPS community. Thanks fellas.
    I thought your issues were with the articles based on your opening post. Generally I'd say people are a bit more measured in their assessment/criticisms of games here in the forums on the whole.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
    Gifmaster 4000 2014 Year of the Gif

    Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes....

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    I thought your issues were with the articles based on your opening post. Generally I'd say people are a bit more measured in their assessment/criticisms of games here in the forums on the whole.
    Fuck YOu PlaYDTstion FAnBoi
    HAlo is the best!

    *Ahem*

    TBH, we keep a level head about games, its the BS that comes along for the ride we rage about.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Vocal? yes. Mainsteam? Not so much. But certainly very vocal.



    But as has been pointed out before in previous threads you can't apply a flat rule to the actions of corporations. The motivators and actions of a corporation chasing Oil are a lot different than those of a corporation chasing your entertainment dollars. If EA don't invest in new product then their sales go down, because they are in competition with other publishers and other media for your leisure money. Most of the money they make gets ploughed back into making new product, and their new products needs to be of a standard/quality that will entice you.
    Incorrect sir! The new product needs only to be a giant pile of shit with a franchise slapped on it and topped with copious amounts of marketing hype! It's true.

    I agree with most of what Nalano has said, the "big box" publishers are pretty consistent in their raping of consumers.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I agree with most of what Nalano has said, the "big box" publishers are pretty consistent in their raping of consumers.
    and/or developers.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    and/or developers.
    Yeah, I mean at this point I kind of consider any developer owned by or under some kind of exclusive contract with one of the big developers to be one in the same (i.e. I draw no distinction between Bioware and EA or DICE and EA anymore).

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    No, it's reporting. The games are escapism, not the articles.

    Furthermore, the games are not inconsequential, nor is everybody saying they're an innocent pastime. That's "kinda the point." When you have long debates over corporate attitudes towards consumers on topics like monetization of assets previously perceived to be free, or the balance between anti-piracy restrictions and customer support, or the walled gardens of platforms and pseudo-platforms and the effect that has on game quality, or the bias and prejudice inherent in game imagery when it comes to gender, ethnicity or simple preconceived notions, or the desensitization to violence and the immature manner in which such a problem is handled, or the ethics of marketing "free" games to small children, or the entrenched labor issues in the current entertainment industry, or the pseudosocial nature of multiplayer games and the obesity epidemic tied to passive pastimes, or, yes, whether games are art...

    ...funny enough, it ain't all fun and games, is it?
    I like this post.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Incorrect sir! The new product needs only to be a giant pile of shit with a franchise slapped on it and topped with copious amounts of marketing hype! It's true.
    It's true? Really, is that the best attempt at a counterpoint you can raise? A simple 'no, you are wrong!!!. I'm afraid you're going to have to do a tad more than claim everything is terrible in order to convince me that your belief holds any merit.

    I agree with most of what Nalano has said, the "big box" publishers are pretty consistent in their raping of consumers.
    'Raping of consumers'? Game prices haven't gone up for years, yet production values and development team sizes have. Please explain this, but with maybe less reaching for the hyperbole dictionary.

    Also Nalano made one statement about corporations, so I'm not getting how you can agree with most of what he says. You either agree or you disagree.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
    Gifmaster 4000 2014 Year of the Gif

    Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes....

  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    It's true? Really, is that the best attempt at a counterpoint you can raise? A simple 'no, you are wrong!!!. I'm afraid you're going to have to do a tad more than claim everything is terrible in order to convince me that your belief holds any merit.



    'Raping of consumers'? Game prices haven't gone up for years, yet production values and development team sizes have. Please explain this, but with maybe less reaching for the hyperbole dictionary.

    Also Nalano made one statement about corporations, so I'm not getting how you can agree with most of what he says. You either agree or you disagree.
    Game quality has gone down significantly in the last few years. Have you even played any of the major releases this year? Games like ME3, ToR, etc, etc, etc? ME3 is the third in a series and came out however many years after the first one and yet is dumbed down to the point that it's not even an RPG anymore. It's a third person action game with interactive cutscenes. ToR was just a pile of shit.

    Game prices HAVE gone up and that is what you are missing. The base price of a retail game hasn't change all that much since this current generation began (although the $59.99 PC game thing is pretty recent). However, game companies have found new and "exciting" ways to take your money with DLC, microtransactions, and the big one SEQUELS.

    Yup, sequels. What was that about development team sizes and production values? Does it have anything to do with reusing assets and pumping out slightly altered versions of the same game every year? Yeah, that. That is raping consumers. They don't need to build long lasting quality games, they will just force feed you another one in 12 months, of course that is after they sell you six map packs for the low, low price of $14.99.

    Nah, you are right after all, the game companies are in it for the gamers man... they are doing it for the ART!

  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Game quality has gone down significantly in the last few years. Have you even played any of the major releases this year? Games like ME3, ToR, etc, etc, etc? ME3 is the third in a series and came out however many years after the first one and yet is dumbed down to the point that it's not even an RPG anymore. It's a third person action game with interactive cutscenes. ToR was just a pile of shit.
    I don't get the impression you understand what quality is tbh. If the height of your criticism is 'it's a pile of shit' I'm not sure you're really able to articulate the concept.

    Game prices HAVE gone up and that is what you are missing. The base price of a retail game hasn't change all that much since this current generation began (although the $59.99 PC game thing is pretty recent). However, game companies have found new and "exciting" ways to take your money with DLC, microtransactions, and the big one SEQUELS.

    Yup, sequels. What was that about development team sizes and production values? Does it have anything to do with reusing assets and pumping out slightly altered versions of the same game every year? Yeah, that. That is raping consumers. They don't need to build long lasting quality games, they will just force feed you another one in 12 months, of course that is after they sell you six map packs for the low, low price of $14.99.
    Doom cost my parents 50 at release. Rage cost me 30 umpteen years later. Game prices have gone down over time. DLC, map packs, etc etc are all there if you want them, but they aren't necessary requirements. Also pretty sure sequels have been around for years and it's not a recent phenomena. Sequels are fairly common place across most media.

    Nah, you are right after all, the game companies are in it for the gamers man... they are doing it for the ART!
    Pretty sure developers make games because they like games and are enthusiastic about games. The 'is it art?' question isn't part of the equation.

    Feel free to rant some more. Maybe throw some more 'it's all shit' in there.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

    Tradition is the tyranny of dead men

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
    Gifmaster 4000 2014 Year of the Gif

    Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes....

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    I don't get the impression you understand what quality is tbh. If the height of your criticism is 'it's a pile of shit' I'm not sure you're really able to articulate the concept.



    Doom cost my parents 50 at release. Rage cost me 30 umpteen years later. Game prices have gone down over time. DLC, map packs, etc etc are all there if you want them, but they aren't necessary requirements. Also pretty sure sequels have been around for years and it's not a recent phenomena. Sequels are fairly common place across most media.



    Pretty sure developers make games because they like games and are enthusiastic about games. The 'is it art?' question isn't part of the equation.

    Feel free to rant some more. Maybe throw some more 'it's all shit' in there.
    I'm not going to write an entire critique of ToR to prove a point. The game was terrible, it was unfinished and full of bugs, as are MOST games that come out these days. Quality is not releasing games that are still in a beta state and fixing it months later with patches. Quality is a game that has been tested thoroughly before release not only for bugs but for balancing and difficulty. Quality is a game that has servers that work at launch. Quality is not having to release an "extended cut" free DLC because your game's ending was thrown together at the last minute to meet a deadline.

    I don't know what things cost in the UK(I also don't know the relative worth or amount of inflation of the pound over the last 20 years), in the US prices have gone up since games started being made on CDs. The only time games were more expensive in my almost 30 years of gaming were console carts.

    Developers make games because they love games? You could have fooled me considering it's blatantly obvious they don't even play their own games before shipping them off to retail. Yeah, the average mid-level programmer or artist may truly enjoy making and playing games, but they don't make the decisions. Executives make decisions. Publishers make decisions. You can't truly be this ignorant of the inner workings of the game industry can you?

    Sequels have been around since before gaming, sure. The "lets see how quickly we can shove more COD in their faces" strategy of pumping out yearly sequels IS something relatively new. If you don't think it's bad for the industry to do this crap then I don't know what to tell you.
    Last edited by Hypernetic; 14-06-2012 at 09:42 AM.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus thegooseking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I don't know what things cost in the UK(I also don't know the relative worth or amount of inflation of the pound over the last 20 years), in the US prices have gone up since games started being made on CDs. The only time games were more expensive in my almost 30 years of gaming were console carts.
    Inflation of the GBP over the last 20 years is about 70%, roughly the same as inflation of the USD. Game prices were a lot less uniform in 1992 than they are now (full-price PC titles ranged from $35 to $70; I think one or two might have been even higher), so it's hard to pin down an average, but at worst, I guess the price of games has increased by about 30%. And that's not to mention that game prices have a much shorter tail today than 20 years ago: they drop a lot faster from release.
    Last edited by thegooseking; 14-06-2012 at 10:33 AM.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I'm not going to write an entire critique of ToR to prove a point. The game was terrible, it was unfinished and full of bugs, as are MOST games that come out these days.
    Putting something in CAPS doesn't make it any more factual. Games are complex and the PC platform isn't a closed system. Patches are a reality of PC gaming and have been for many years. Ironically given your frustrations you'd probably enjoy your 'hobby' more on a console I suspect.

    I don't know what things cost in the UK(I also don't know the relative worth or amount of inflation of the pound over the last 20 years), in the US prices have gone up since games started being made on CDs. The only time games were more expensive in my almost 30 years of gaming were console carts.
    http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/1...own-with-time/

    Developers make games because they love games? You could have fooled me considering it's blatantly obvious they don't even play their own games before shipping them off to retail. Yeah, the average mid-level programmer or artist may truly enjoy making and playing games, but they don't make the decisions. Executives make decisions. Publishers make decisions. You can't truly be this ignorant of the inner workings of the game industry can you?
    *Chortles*

    What none of the tens of thousands of game designers out there play games? Now whose being ignorant? Please take your PCgamer4life hipster BS to the escapist or Destructoid.

    Sequels have been around since before gaming, sure. The "lets see how quickly we can shove more COD in their faces" strategy of pumping out yearly sequels IS something relatively new. If you don't think it's bad for the industry to do this crap then I don't know what to tell you.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_...:_Ultima_I-III
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

    Tradition is the tyranny of dead men

    Steam:Kadayi Origin: Kadayi GFWL: Kadayi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
    Gifmaster 4000 2014 Year of the Gif

    Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes....

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    Games are complex and the PC platform isn't a closed system. Patches are a reality of PC gaming and have been for many years.
    Putting something in CAPS doesn't make it more factual.
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

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