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  1. #261
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    I think it's mentioned that Sovereign and Harbinger were capital ships, and a lot of the Reapers were smaller. Which seems like a retcon.
    Probably, but it's still pretty weird considering how much that small Reaper on Rannoch took to destroy.

  2. #262
    Lesser Hivemind Node Flint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Which doesn't really make sense when their stated goal is to "preserve organic life".
    Yup. Silly little techno-crawfish!
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  3. #263
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    To be fair, immortal machines can't help but have a different frame of judgement to super mortal organics. What's killing a few to save the concept of life? Where was the fallout 1 esq* side with the reapers choice?

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  4. #264
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Their killing isn't logical though. It's not a "kill one man to save a million" scenario (or in MEs case, kill billions to save trillions?). It's nonsensical bullshit. Destroy entire galactic civilizations because they MIGHT create rebellious AI that MIGHT wipe out all organic life in the galaxy for some unknown reason.

    Since we know the reapers leave some behind to observe during the 50k year period, would it not be more logical for them to simply wait for the rebellious AI to be created and then destroy the AI?

    Would it not make even more sense to not jumpstart civilizations by leaving behind mass relays and artifacts from previous civilizations (i.e. Prothean ruins on Mars) that facilitate progress?

    Would it not make even MORE sense for the reapers to just be an ever present force in the galaxy ruling over organic life and demanding they never create AI?

    The whole reaper cycle doesn't even make sense. Apparently creating a reaper is a super rare thing (only one species in the current cycle was even a candidate for it apparently) and they lose several reapers in the battles before the crucible is used (and in that battle). How do they keep up their numbers? During the Prothean cycle they fought for centuries, the probably lost hundreds of reapers. If they are losing more reapers per cycle than they create... how are they maintaining their numbers? We know they didn't make Prothean reapers because they turned them all into collectors.

  5. #265
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Their killing isn't logical though. It's not a "kill one man to save a million" scenario (or in MEs case, kill billions to save trillions?). It's nonsensical bullshit. Destroy entire galactic civilizations because they MIGHT create rebellious AI that MIGHT wipe out all organic life in the galaxy for some unknown reason.
    In the patched-up ending, the Catalyst says that it was created by a race that 'recognized that conflict would always arise between synthetics and organics'. They made the Catalyst to solve that problem; not by genocide, but the Catalyst was supposed to 'oversee the relations between synthetic and organic life, to establish a connection'. In other words, the creators tried to solve the problem, thinking it was based on a failure to communicate. Apparently though, the Catalyst wasn't up to the job, as it states that 'our efforts always ended in conflict, so a new solution was required': the Reapers.

    As for the two 'mights': the galactic civilizations already have created rebellious AI; most notably the humans and quarians. The Catalyst, reasoning that synthetic life will always come in conflict with organic life, considers it go-time because it is 100% convinced that organic life will lose that conflict. The reason for the inevitable conflict is unknown, or perhaps there are dozens of different reasons. Either way, the reasons are not important to the Catalyst because it has already finished it's research, so to speak. Or, based on its statement that the Crucible created 'new options', the Catalyst might not have been capable of coming to a different conclusion in its original hardware setup. That's all speculation though, and will probably never really be cleared up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Since we know the reapers leave some behind to observe during the 50k year period, would it not be more logical for them to simply wait for the rebellious AI to be created and then destroy the AI?
    Ignoring the ridiculous opening of ME3, and working from what we learned in ME1, the Reapers are all about stealth as far as their initial attack is concerned. They would knock out the Citadel and relays, control interstellar traffic, and methodically work through their cycle. If the Reapers had appeared above Rannoch in the thousands, wiped out the geth, and just left - there is little doubt the Quarians would raise every alarm they could find. This would be terribly bad for the Reapers, in my understanding, because of the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Would it not make even more sense to not jumpstart civilizations by leaving behind mass relays and artifacts from previous civilizations (i.e. Prothean ruins on Mars) that facilitate progress?
    The Reapers are jump-starting civilizations precisely because it prevents said civilizations from coming up with new solutions that the Reapers cannot control. Control of interstellar traffic was said to be key to their success in previous cycles. By providing the blueprints for such technology, civilizations would use and come to depend (because who would fund a trillion credits research program into FTL technology when they other guy is offering a working version for free - it just comes with a bit of Mars dust on top of it) on technology the Reapers had a large degree of control over (FTL without the relays would still work, obviously).

    The Reapers aren't perfect, either. They missed Ilos, they missed Javik, they probably missed dozens of worlds. Wasn't Feros one big Prothean ruin? The Catalyst also admits that it knew of the Crucible in previous cycles but that it thought the design had vanished.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Would it not make even MORE sense for the reapers to just be an ever present force in the galaxy ruling over organic life and demanding they never create AI?
    That's what Shepard is doing in the Control ending, I guess. I'm not quite sure of the reasoning by the Reapers or Catalyst on this point, but I got the impression that they like organic life - just not the kind that makes synthetic life. For the earlier mentioned reasons, they presumably want to keep their existence a secret so that, should things get out of control on the synthetic life front, they can intervene quickly, safely, and thoroughly.

    Who knows, I think it could've been fun if they had made more of an issue of the Catalyst being wrong - because I think that is actually quite an interesting topic. What if the advanced AI is wrong? Why is a supercomputer wrong - how could it be? How does one come to a correct conclusion, etc. But that's a different theme than what they were going with and would have required a lot more build-up in the earlier games to come off decently - if it's even a good idea, which I - being far from impartial - can't comment on. Either way...
    "He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to
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