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  1. #221
    Network Hub orcane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    The decision to dump dark energy clearly happened early on though as it's only very lightly hinted at a couple of times. You just shove it in at the end and it's equally out of nowhere and equally nonsensical. At least the ending they went with matched the theme of the game. Sure, that you couldn't disagree with the Catalyst and point out things like the Quarian/Geth truce as contradicting it's theory was pathetic, but at least the whole synthetic vs organics approach was one of the major themes of the game. Dark energy would have been completely out of nowhere, and is entirely unrelated to anything in the preceding three games. Which, I imagine, is why they dropped it.

    Because yes, 'the Reapers are there to clean up dark energy' sounds good as a one sentence concept, but so does 'the Reapers are there to ensure balance between synthetics and organics'.
    I'm sorry... what?

    Also, they dropped several hints about dark energy in ME2. There was a whole mission that was all about that. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of calling people entitled and nutters, I guess.
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  2. #222
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    The decision to dump dark energy clearly happened early on though as it's only very lightly hinted at a couple of times. You just shove it in at the end and it's equally out of nowhere and equally nonsensical.
    Lightly hinted at? It's the whole reason they make a human reaper in ME2 Deano, and the perfect validation as to why they attack earth first in ME3.

    Sure, that you couldn't disagree with the Catalyst and point out things like the Quarian/Geth truce as contradicting it's theory was pathetic,
    The fact that one of Shepard's principal acts effectively undermines the entire conceit of the God Child's justifications doesn't exactly sell it as a great overarching concept.

    Also, they dropped several hints about dark energy in ME2. There was a whole mission that was all about that. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of calling people entitled and nutters, I guess.
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  3. #223
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    What is it with people and epilogues? Epilogues of the "character X went off and did this" are nearly always bollocks. I'd rather leave what the characters get up to to my own imaginings (no, certainly not that, you dirty minded person you!).

    I watched bits of one of the extended endings on Youtube and can't say I felt it improved things. It sorted an inconsistency or two but the added exposition just seemed clumsy and heavy handed, just pointing out the consequences of the ending for those of us in the back of the class who couldn't keep up (I'd imagine about 3 people at most!).

    To me the ending being a bit rubbish was due to the Starchild and the choice he offered but perhaps mostly because the final battle didn't utilise the allies you had gathered over the course of the series in a particularly satisfying or interesting way.

    If I play it again I'll give it a shot though, still got my saves somewhere I think.

  4. #224
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Vthe vast majority of people who were simply unhappy about the ending and publicly vocalized their dislike of it.
    But that's the point, John was just criticising those who demanded - and there were a significant number of them - that Bioware give them a changed ending. What's so bad about that? Those who do go crazy about it deserve to be called out on it. And 'going mental' is a common term for people behaving angrily/wildly about something, don't be a pedant.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with it, I just find it hypocritical that you get upset that he used aggressive language, then you do exactly the same, is John not allowed free speech on a website he owns? It's hardly as if he went over the top.

  5. #225
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
    To me the ending being a bit rubbish was due to the Starchild and the choice he offered but perhaps mostly because the final battle didn't utilise the allies you had gathered over the course of the series in a particularly satisfying or interesting way.
    The War asset concept was massive mistake for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
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  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Lightly hinted at? It's the whole reason they make a human reaper in ME2 Deano, and the perfect validation as to why they attack earth first in ME3.
    Well I'll take your word for it, but I certainly never got that impression from my play-throughs of the game. Had dark energy cropped up at the end, it would have a seemed like an equally pointless last-minute twist to me.

    The fact that one of Shepard's principal acts effectively undermines the entire conceit of the God Child's justifications doesn't exactly sell it as a great overarching concept.
    Well it can do. It's easy to go the other way though - actually uniting the two is a fairly tough resolution to get (especially if you're not importing a game) and the games offers plenty of opportunities to side against synthetics throughout. The validity and sanctity of artificial life is one of the huge over-riding themes of the three games. Hanging the ending on that wasn't a bad idea. Space pollution was.

    The way it was done could be seen as fairly poor (it worked for me, as synthesis seemed the ultimate expression of my efforts to bring all life in the galaxy together) and not recognising what you do with the Geth/Quarians either way was silly.

    But I'm sure we'd be having this same conversation if they'd pulled dark energy out of their asses and done it in a similar way: "wtf does crazy space-baby Al Gore have to do with the rest of the game biowareeeeee"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Depends what you define as 'going mental' (one has to love the assignment of behaviour one doesn't approve of as insanity tbh).
    Would you ever call or refer to an actually mentally ill person as a 'nutter' or 'mental'? Because either you would, or you wouldn't because you know those words don't actually mean that any more.

  7. #227
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    But that's the point, John was just criticising those who demanded - and there were a significant number of them - that Bioware give them a changed ending. What's so bad about that? Those who do go crazy about it deserve to be called out on it. And 'going mental' is a common term for people behaving angrily/wildly about something, don't be a pedant.
    IIRC Bioware asked for feedback on ME3 very shortly after release. If the overwhelming fan feedback they got was that the ending sucked and they should change it, whose to blame? Bioware invited the criticism, and then in fact asked people for recommendations.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with it, I just find it hypocritical that you get upset that he used aggressive language, then you do exactly the same, is John not allowed free speech on a website he owns? It's hardly as if he went over the top.
    I'll reiterate: -

    So complaining about something you find objectionable is in fact objectionable?
    I'm not writing a blog that's read by a lot of PC gamers and other games 'journalists'. If I was though, rest assured I wouldn't be casually denigrating who for better or worst are far more invested in the games they play than I am.

    Would you ever call or refer to an actually mentally ill person as a 'nutter' or 'mental'? Because either you would, or you wouldn't because you know those words don't actually mean that any more.
    Lazy words for lazy people.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 01-07-2012 at 07:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
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  8. #228
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    If you think calling someone an entitled fart is really that bad, then you are far too over-sensitive. They are good about writing about games, who cares if they insult the group of rabid people who were aggressively demanding that Bioware change the ending? Even if it were a group of 5 people, who sent death threats/stupid comments why do you care if they get insulted? In fact it's hardly an insult. I don't recall Bioware asking for personal attacks either.

  9. #229
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    If you think calling someone an entitled fart is really that bad, then you are far too over-sensitive. They are good about writing about games, who cares if they insult the group of rabid people who were aggressively demanding that Bioware change the ending? Even if it were a group of 5 people, who sent death threats/stupid comments why do you care if they get insulted? In fact it's hardly an insult. I don't recall Bioware asking for personal attacks either.
    Quit with the accusations dude, it's tiresome (hypocritical, oversensitive, whatever next?). The exact language is not what's important, it's the snobbish attitude behind it (Orcane articulates it nicely below). There was never a need for it (because it was simply inarticulate name calling at the end of the day). There was no value to it, and it smacked of the playground.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 01-07-2012 at 07:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
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  10. #230
    Network Hub orcane's Avatar
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    Because he didn't just insult the rabid people who were aggressive, it was a blanket statement that included everyone who wanted a better ending than what we got, after 5+ years and three games, with a measure of dismissive "entitled gamers cared more about the game/ending than me, clearly they were wrong" idiocy thrown in.

    You keep ignoring that asking for a new ending as such is not a "crazy" or bad thing. Gamers as consumers have every right to ask for improvements to a product they bought, and you can shout "artistic integrity" all day and it still won't count. It's a bullshit excuse and you don't get to dismiss people's discontent like that.

    Yes a (vast) minority went for unacceptable behaviour, but you can address that without insulting everyone else who voiced their dislike for Bioware's design and their utter inability to understand why people were unhappy with the ending in the first place. With or without "demands".

    Just because they're games/game designers doesn't mean as a consumer you simply have to sit there, worship the gods who make your video games and keep quiet whatever they do.
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  11. #231
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orcane View Post
    Because he didn't just insult the rabid people who were aggressive, it was a blanket statement that included everyone who wanted a better ending than what we got, after 5+ years and three games, with a measure of dismissive "entitled gamers cared more about the game/ending than me, clearly they were wrong" idiocy thrown in.
    .
    This would be true, but he did clarify this. I understand that it was written ambiguously from the start but it's pretty clear what he meant. I mean really, what attitude behind it? It's barely even an insult, on a site that is written in a personal style.

  12. #232
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Anyone who uses the term "entitled gamer" is an idiot in my book. It's a stupid buzzword that's been gaining increased usage over the past year or so and it really needs to stop. Fanboys are notorious for using it when rabidly defending something. Take a look at the forums for any game that has come out recently that was full of bugs or unfinished. Go look at a thread complaining about the state of the game (legitimate complaints too) and observe the flood of "you are just an entitled gamer BRO!" comments that follow it.

    TOR was probably the worst for this. Apparently not wanting to pay $15 a month to beta test a crap game makes you not just an "entitled gamer" but part of the new "entitled generation, who wants everything handed to them and doesn't want to work for anything".

    Stupid.

  13. #233
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    I agree it's used too often, to describe someone who has legitimate complaints but there is definitely a place for it when needed. It's just rarely used correctly.

  14. #234
    Network Hub orcane's Avatar
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    It definitely wasn't in this case. Those who overreacted by sending death threats et al. weren't "entitled", they were simply being colossal idiots and acting in a criminal manner.

    Those who tried to bring it up with the BBB or whatever were either idiots (bandwagon jumpers, etc.) or genuinely thought they were deceived more than they really were, and to some extent you can't blame them in an industry where developers center a lot of PR around feature X, and then do the opposite or at least something very different, and can then just sit back and claim that game development is an ongoing process and they never promised that feature X would make it in a way that resembles their original announcements.
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  15. #235
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Lightly hinted at? It's the whole reason they make a human reaper in ME2 Deano, and the perfect validation as to why they attack earth first in ME3.
    As far as I remember, that reason is never communicated in ME2 or ME3 or anywhere else except for the "ending that could have been" article, and it doesn't even make any sense to begin with.
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  16. #236
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-Row View Post
    As far as I remember, that reason is never communicated in ME2 or ME3 or anywhere else except for the "ending that could have been" article, and it doesn't even make any sense to begin with.
    But isn't Mordin banging on about humans being genetically diverse and how it's really important in some way? Then we never hear it mentioned again. Just like Tali and the star she was studying that was aging too quickly.

    The Dark Energy story was never fully developed. But it was still clear that there was a change in the writing direction, which is never a good idea after two games of a trilogy.

  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    No he called someone a MF in another thread, and that's just not cricket really.
    This seems likely, even though he wasn't insulting someone so much as using the yankee vernacular...

  18. #238
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblazeuk View Post
    This seems likely, even though he wasn't insulting someone so much as using the yankee vernacular...
    I'm kind of wondering if he was perma-banned or not at this point. He was a good poster, I hope not.

  19. #239
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    But isn't Mordin banging on about humans being genetically diverse and how it's really important in some way? Then we never hear it mentioned again. Just like Tali and the star she was studying that was aging too quickly.
    I can see the diversity point, but why give it human form? That's what bugs me most and it's never fully explained.
    - If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -

  20. #240
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-Row View Post
    I can see the diversity point, but why give it human form? That's what bugs me most and it's never fully explained.
    Why not give it human form? It doesn't matter what it's shape is for space flight and a bi-pedal humanoid would certainly be able to accomplish the same terrestrial objectives as whatever the other reapers are supposed to be.

    note: I also thought it was stupid, just playing devil's advocate.

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