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  1. #241
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-Row View Post
    I can see the diversity point, but why give it human form? That's what bugs me most and it's never fully explained.
    Because Terminator is a great movie.

  2. #242
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-Row View Post
    I can see the diversity point, but why give it human form? That's what bugs me most and it's never fully explained.
    Probably because BioWare thought that the combination of 'harvesting humans to make a Reaper' and 'a Reaper that doesn't look human' is too complicated for most of us to understand. And, of course, Terminator.
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  3. #243
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    My fridge doesn't look like a giant piece of ham either, but I guess nothing beats the Terminator point. :D
    - If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -

  4. #244
    Lesser Hivemind Node Juan Carlo's Avatar
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    So I finally got around to watching the DLC extended endings, and while the rejection one was interesting, I think in most cases the extended endings actually made things WAY worse.

    Especially the synthesis ending. I think an ending like "synthesis" worked in the original precisely because it left a lot of things unsaid, vague, and open to interpretation. It was more mysticism than science fiction which allowed you to read the idea of "Synthesis" on a more allegorical level (which, quite frankly, is the only way it makes sense).

    However, the extended cut overly literalized things to the point that it just made it incredibly silly. Seeing images of humans with glowing eyes and robot body parts working together with robots was just dumb. It'd be like if Kubrick released a cut of 2001 that had a bunch of extra scenes which provided incredibly mundane explanations for the lightshow and baby in the last 20 minutes of the film (and actually, Clarke's original script did explain all this, but Kubrick wisely took it out in the final film). Not saying ME3 is as good as 2001 (it's not), but some things work better when they aren't literalized or over explained too much.

    Which is why this whole petition thing depresses me. I think it just proves that gamers have no imagination. Filling in the blanks yourself is usually way more interesting than having someone spell everything out in a silly way.

  5. #245
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jnx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Carlo View Post
    Which is why this whole petition thing depresses me. I think it just proves that gamers have no imagination. Filling in the blanks yourself is usually way more interesting than having someone spell everything out in a silly way.
    Problem is, there wasn't enough blanks to fill. I would've been totally OK with the ending if it had stopped five mins earlier leaving Shepard and Anderson dying and watching the battle play out. That would've left some blanks.
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  6. #246
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    The problem is that the story leading up to that point wasn't that kind of story. The reapers were never some unseen mystic force, they were sentient beings that you communicated with. The rest of the story was always an open book... the entirety of ME3 leading up to the last 5 minutes was spent tying up loose ends from the first two games. That is literally all ME3 was aside from the crucible crap and the weak string of "we need war assets so go handle the Quarians/Krogans/Geth/Solarians/etc" that gave your character motivation to be tying up those loose ends.

    The original endings really didn't leave much up to imagination. They left questions, yes, but not good ones. The questions were basically "did the relays exploding kill everyone in the galaxy"? And if not how will they survive given that the galactic society was so dependent on the relays for trade and travel? I mean destroying the relays was essentially like telling today's society that they could only use wooden sail boats and horses for transportation from now on. Entire countries would starve to death.

    Point being that it has very little to do with lacking imaginaton, the endings were just BAD. I'm all for leaving things open to interpretation, but ME3 really didn't do that in a good way. It basically just left you wondering "So how fucked are they?" and that was it.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Point being that it has very little to do with lacking imaginaton, the endings were just BAD. I'm all for leaving things open to interpretation, but ME3 really didn't do that in a good way. It basically just left you wondering "So how fucked are they?" and that was it.
    That was just the one aspect though. Had they shown a relay just flaring up and then peacefully shutting down and going dark, it would have solved the "they blew up and killed everyone".

    From there one ending is fine - synthesis and machines not needing food kinda ties that one up (it's space magic, but so is the whole ending). Control gives Shepard Reaper tech that could feasibly be used to deal with the transport issue. Destroy is more problematic, but I think it should have been.

    Obviously it was a huge failing that those consequences weren't originally made explicit though, and it would have been a more interesting dilemma if they were in my opinion.

  8. #248
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    That was just the one aspect though. Had they shown a relay just flaring up and then peacefully shutting down and going dark, it would have solved the "they blew up and killed everyone".

    From there one ending is fine - synthesis and machines not needing food kinda ties that one up (it's space magic, but so is the whole ending). Control gives Shepard Reaper tech that could feasibly be used to deal with the transport issue. Destroy is more problematic, but I think it should have been.

    Obviously it was a huge failing that those consequences weren't originally made explicit though, and it would have been a more interesting dilemma if they were in my opinion.
    Machines definitely do need "food", it's called "fuel". Life, whether it is organic, synthetic, or a hybrid of both requires energy to function. These are basic laws of physics. There is no such thing as free energy.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Machines definitely do need "food", it's called "fuel". Life, whether it is organic, synthetic, or a hybrid of both requires energy to function. These are basic laws of physics. There is no such thing as free energy.
    So let's say all those visible bits of circuit are PV receptors then. There's some sort of fuel/food on every planet, synthesis allowing us to take advantage of that isn't hugely far-fetched.

  10. #250
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    I really don't think they should have made the Reapers as unstoppable as they were. It made the fact that any forces stood against them not very plausible. Like them somehow not managing to wipe out Anderson and the rest of the forces, I know they give reasons but it still seems kind of unlikely considering they can't even damage a reaper. I mean there's no way the Allied forces would have been able to defend the Crucible from the Reapers during the final battle.

  11. #251
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    So let's say all those visible bits of circuit are PV receptors then. There's some sort of fuel/food on every planet, synthesis allowing us to take advantage of that isn't hugely far-fetched.
    Not everyone in the galaxy was on a planet, space station, ship, etc that was within that kind of distance of a star. Photo-voltaic receptors won't work once you reach a certain distance from a star (i.e. Jupiter). There is a reason why probes like Voyager are powered by plutonium and not solar energy. What would they do for energy on colonies, space craft, space stations, etc?

    I'm sure you could make up some space magic thing like "mass effect fields", but whatever. My original point remains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    I really don't think they should have made the Reapers as unstoppable as they were. It made the fact that any forces stood against them not very plausible. Like them somehow not managing to wipe out Anderson and the rest of the forces, I know they give reasons but it still seems kind of unlikely considering they can't even damage a reaper. I mean there's no way the Allied forces would have been able to defend the Crucible from the Reapers during the final battle.
    Eh? We defeated a reaper ourselves in the first game. We know that the Protheans fought the reapers for CENTURIES before being defeated. In some ways the series depicts them as an unstoppable force, but in others it doesn't.

    I will agree with you on one point however, allowing the crucible to be docked with the citadel makes zero sense whatsoever. Unless, it was their plan all along. For all we know whoever created the reapers also created the crucible and the whole damn cycle was just some kind of forced evolution experiment by some crazy aliens from another galaxy.
    Last edited by Hypernetic; 04-07-2012 at 01:03 PM.

  12. #252
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnx View Post
    Problem is, there wasn't enough blanks to fill. I would've been totally OK with the ending if it had stopped five mins earlier leaving Shepard and Anderson dying and watching the battle play out. That would've left some blanks.
    That'd be great. But I would've loved that the game ended with you dying after Harbinger gives you the evil eye.
    I guess it would've been even more rage inducing for a lot of people.

  13. #253
    Lesser Hivemind Node TillEulenspiegel's Avatar
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    That's why I think Refusal is the best ending - it gives you space for your imagination to play.

    Of course you don't need to spell everything out in an ending. But the bits that *are* there need to be right.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tikey View Post
    That'd be great. But I would've loved that the game ended with you dying after Harbinger gives you the evil eye.
    I guess it would've been even more rage inducing for a lot of people.
    The best ending of this type would have been the one I was hoping for after meeting the Prothean VI. Once it was revealed that the Crucible was something that every species attempted to build every cycle, and that there was always a schism with an indoctrinated "control" faction, and that nobody really knew what the Crucible was supposed to do, my immediate thought was that the whole of the Crucible was a Reaper-planted plot that did absolutely nothing. Thus, the final battle is one against insurmountable odds in which victory is in fact impossible.

    Of course this ending still wouldn't have worked given all the massive galaxy-affected choices'n'consequences that the game has you making all through it, but if you're going to troll your fans you may as well do it with style.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  15. #255
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    The best ending of this type would have been the one I was hoping for after meeting the Prothean VI. Once it was revealed that the Crucible was something that every species attempted to build every cycle, and that there was always a schism with an indoctrinated "control" faction, and that nobody really knew what the Crucible was supposed to do, my immediate thought was that the whole of the Crucible was a Reaper-planted plot that did absolutely nothing. Thus, the final battle is one against insurmountable odds in which victory is in fact impossible.

    Of course this ending still wouldn't have worked given all the massive galaxy-affected choices'n'consequences that the game has you making all through it, but if you're going to troll your fans you may as well do it with style.
    The Matrix Reloaded effect then.

  16. #256
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post


    Eh? We defeated a reaper ourselves in the first game. We know that the Protheans fought the reapers for CENTURIES before being defeated. In some ways the series depicts them as an unstoppable force, but in others it doesn't.
    This is what I mean, there's no evidence in gameplay that any force would be able to stand against the Reapers for so long, look how much it took to destroy Sovereign and even the smaller Reaper on Rannoch. The fleet at the final battle would just get wiped out.

  17. #257
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    This is what I mean, there's no evidence in gameplay that any force would be able to stand against the Reapers for so long, look how much it took to destroy Sovereign and even the smaller Reaper on Rannoch. The fleet at the final battle would just get wiped out.
    The reapers use very inefficient methods of killing though. Such as walking around on the surface of planets killing a few people at a time with a laser instead of vaporizing entire continents. Hell with their tech they could probably just plunge the moon into the Earth and call it a day.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    This is what I mean, there's no evidence in gameplay that any force would be able to stand against the Reapers for so long, look how much it took to destroy Sovereign and even the smaller Reaper on Rannoch. The fleet at the final battle would just get wiped out.
    I think it's mentioned that Sovereign and Harbinger were capital ships, and a lot of the Reapers were smaller. Which seems like a retcon.

  19. #259
    Lesser Hivemind Node Flint's Avatar
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    Considering how much the Reapers seem to like to bask in their own superiority, I wouldn't be surprised if their more 'personal' approach to death and destruction was a massive ego masturbation act.
    Give me steam and how you feel to make it real.

  20. #260
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flint View Post
    Considering how much the Reapers seem to like to bask in their own superiority, I wouldn't be surprised if their more 'personal' approach to death and destruction was a massive ego masturbation act.
    Which doesn't really make sense when their stated goal is to "preserve organic life".

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