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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGodzillaHunter View Post
    SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS (though I doubt anyone reading this and actually cares about spoilers...)

    Even shooting Mordin? Because that was the point that I was not able to be renegade anymore. The first time I actually did it, but I had to load because I felt so bad. For the next ~20 mins, the game tries to make you feel terrible about yourself if you actually do.
    You may want to have a look at this:

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...you-didnt-play

    Basically, if you really, really hate Krogans, you can get Mordin to survive AND be as Renegade as you like!

    Not that it matters in the end etc etc

  2. #42
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    I think Nalano's particularly argumentive and generally obnoxious (if often pretty bloody funny) mode of conversation has dropped him in trouble....possibly this post.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblazeuk View Post
    I think Nalano's particularly argumentive and generally obnoxious (if often pretty bloody funny) mode of conversation has dropped him in trouble....possibly this post.
    That's lame

  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblazeuk View Post
    I think Nalano's particularly argumentive and generally obnoxious (if often pretty bloody funny) mode of conversation has dropped him in trouble....possibly this post.
    That would, at most, surely only call for a ban. This appears to be a full-on account deletion, which is something else entirely. I can't imagine what would prompt that other than a request from the user in question, actually.

  5. #45
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    That would, at most, surely only call for a ban. This appears to be a full-on account deletion, which is something else entirely. I can't imagine what would prompt that other than a request from the user in question, actually.
    It says banned if you look under his profile. Given it's his first time (AFAIK) then I suspect it is probably for a week tops. Maybe curb it on the direct swears at a guess.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 25-06-2012 at 12:36 AM.
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  6. #46
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    It says banned. Given it's his first time (AFAIK) then I suspect it is probably for a week tops.
    Interesting, I don't see that. In fact, like I said, I don't see anything, it's like he was wiped from the board. Perhaps there's a setting somewhere that hides banned posters? Odd.

  7. #47
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
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    Been reading the BSN forums for a bit after hearing about this announcement. Seems like a new 100 minute long 'documentary' on the Indoctrination Theory is all the rage among the still actively posting critics. If that sounds like something you'd want to watch, it's available here. I haven't seen it, so I can't comment on how well done and or interesting it is.

    I've also listened to the BioWare podcast, and I was surprised to hear how often it was stressed and repeated that the main issue people had with the ending was that it didn't provide closure. I'm not sure how to interpret that, but if they really believe that then I'm not sure if the upcoming DLC is going to do much to address some of the main story-line and story-logic problems that have been put forward. We'll see.
    "He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to
    the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free". ~
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tritagonist View Post
    I've also listened to the BioWare podcast, and I was surprised to hear how often it was stressed and repeated that the main issue people had with the ending was that it didn't provide closure. I'm not sure how to interpret that, but if they really believe that then I'm not sure if the upcoming DLC is going to do much to address some of the main story-line and story-logic problems that have been put forward. We'll see.
    You're assuming that people know the reason they didn't like the ending.

    The thing is, a 'bad' ending doesn't produce the sort of vitriol, anger and crazed ranting that ME3's did. A bad ending, where the plot doesn't really come together, produces a "well that was kinda lame" response.

    The sheer strength of the reaction to ME3's ending was because people connected with the characters, and we never really found out what happened to them, and many interpretations of the endings had things not looking good. I think that's where the anger came from, and I think that's why Bioware keep stating the 'lack of closure' thing.

    The same ending we had, StarChild and everything, but with character epilogues and closure, would have still been seen as lame and a poor ending. But people wouldn't have tried to sue Bioware over it.

  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    Interesting, I don't see that. In fact, like I said, I don't see anything, it's like he was wiped from the board. Perhaps there's a setting somewhere that hides banned posters? Odd.
    His posts are still here it just doesn't show his avatar or signature for whatever reason. (I'm assuming it's that way for people who get banned for offensive images in their avatar).

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    His posts are still here it just doesn't show his avatar or signature for whatever reason. (I'm assuming it's that way for people who get banned for offensive images in their avatar).
    I can't imagine it's any thing to do with his post on this board tbh, I just misunderstood who he was aiming a post at due to use of "you" and he clarified when I called he on it. Nothing offensive and he explained, can't see anything ban/warning worthy here
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tritagonist View Post
    I've also listened to the BioWare podcast, and I was surprised to hear how often it was stressed and repeated that the main issue people had with the ending was that it didn't provide closure. I'm not sure how to interpret that, but if they really believe that then I'm not sure if the upcoming DLC is going to do much to address some of the main story-line and story-logic problems that have been put forward. We'll see.
    It would be absurd to suggest it was possible to make everyone happy. Presumably the reasoning and DLC is based off whatever part of the fanbase they've been listening to, which is not necessarily going to be the more vocal.

  12. #52
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarigs View Post
    I can't imagine it's any thing to do with his post on this board tbh, I just misunderstood who he was aiming a post at due to use of "you" and he clarified when I called he on it. Nothing offensive and he explained, can't see anything ban/warning worthy here
    No he called someone a MF in another thread, and that's just not cricket really.
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  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    You're assuming that people know the reason they didn't like the ending.

    The thing is, a 'bad' ending doesn't produce the sort of vitriol, anger and crazed ranting that ME3's did. A bad ending, where the plot doesn't really come together, produces a "well that was kinda lame" response.

    The sheer strength of the reaction to ME3's ending was because people connected with the characters, and we never really found out what happened to them, and many interpretations of the endings had things not looking good. I think that's where the anger came from, and I think that's why Bioware keep stating the 'lack of closure' thing.

    The same ending we had, StarChild and everything, but with character epilogues and closure, would have still been seen as lame and a poor ending. But people wouldn't have tried to sue Bioware over it.
    Perhaps there is truth to the idea that man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable creature. But I like to think that the endless amounts of posts and videos made have some clear themes in common. If BioWare thinks those complaints are not caused by the basic story of the ending but are the result of the ending being too vague, or that new concepts were introduced too quickly, perhaps this clarification will take a way a number of those complaints. I'm genuinely interested to see what they come up with.

    I think you're right that at least a large portion of the outcry was caused by people being left in the dark as to the fate of some characters. Still, I think that the amount of attention issues like the Indoctrination Theory have gotten, as opposed to say, some Why Jack is Really Safe Theory, suggests that at least a sizeable number of people thinks the main issue with the ending is not the characters but how Shepard is railroaded into meekly accepting what seems like a weird choice, with all the confusing details that the Citadel-sequence includes.

    I think I agree with the idea that an epilogue would have done wonders to subdue a lot of the initial outcry. I'm looking forward to see what BioWare has come up with.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tritagonist View Post
    Perhaps there is truth to the idea that man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable creature. But I like to think that the endless amounts of posts and videos made have some clear themes in common. If BioWare thinks those complaints are not caused by the basic story of the ending but are the result of the ending being too vague, or that new concepts were introduced too quickly, perhaps this clarification will take a way a number of those complaints. I'm genuinely interested to see what they come up with.
    It's kinda like the Lost ending. The actual ending of Lost was that just a couple of people escape the island and everyone else is dead/stuck. It was a crap ending. But the whole silly church thing, while ridiculous, painful and stupid, at least offered us some emotional closure. You got to say goodbye to the characters, there are some nice moments, and so on.

    People still cite Lost as one of the worst endings ever, but that's why it didn't get quite the level of anger as ME3. Contrast with The Sopranos non-ending, which was clever, but unsatisfying as nothing gets concluded, everything is up in the air.

    I guess that's the key here - a good ending and a satisfying ending are not the same thing. Shepard dying and failing to stop the Reapers, fade to black, would have been a potentially 'good' ending, but unsatisfying after three games of effort.

    Bioware gave us a bad and unsatisfying ending, they're opting to resolve the latter issue, rather than the former. And I do think for a game, where players have 100 hours invested in the series, that's in some ways more important.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    I think people dislike the ME3 ending for different reasons. I personally have no qualms with a dark ending to something, but I think a lot of people did dislike how the ME3 ending basically left the galaxy in a terrible state of affairs.

    What did I hate about the ending?

    1) Presentation: The presentation of the ending sucked royally. The "choice room" and "God child" were bad enough, but the fact that all of the "choices" netted you the same exact cutscene with different colors was what really did it in for me. I felt like after however many years of playing ME games I deserved better/more than that. Does that make me an entitled gamer (cool new buzz word)? I don't really care.

    2) NONSENSE: Plot holes everywhere.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I think people dislike the ME3 ending for different reasons. I personally have no qualms with a dark ending to something, but I think a lot of people did dislike how the ME3 ending basically left the galaxy in a terrible state of affairs.
    I think that's the thing. Had it ended with a comprehensive epilogue talking about where all your characters ended up, and the consequences of all your choices on the galaxy (and how they were influenced by your final choice) you'd have forgotten about all that by the time the game finished. You'd still think it was somewhat lame, but you'd be content.

    The problem Bioware are missing is that I think this DLC would have massively improved the reaction to the ending had it been in from day one. By now everyone has had time to think about why they disliked the ending, and it's not going to fix that. Still, for people who haven't played yet it's something.

  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    You'd still think it was somewhat lame, but you'd be content.
    Speak for yourself. If I'm told I'm getting steak and instead I'm served mince, I'm not content just because they're both technically beef.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Speak for yourself. If I'm told I'm getting steak and instead I'm served mince, I'm not content just because they're both technically beef.
    Now for sure as expectations are higher, but when the game came out, no-one promised you steak. An epilogue that showed the effect of your choices throughout the game, and the final choice, fulfils the not A/B/C claim. If that's steak then it'd just be rubbish steak.

    But then, I'm not really talking about you anyway, because you've been fairly reasonable about the ending and didn't go mental and call Bioware evil monsters. That was my point: that sort of guttural reaction from some quarters doesn't stem from the ending just being 'bad'. It stems from people being properly upset. And the only reason that number of people would get upset over a game is the connection to the characters and the lack of closure you get with them.

  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Now for sure as expectations are higher, but when the game came out, no-one promised you steak. An epilogue that showed the effect of your choices throughout the game, and the final choice, fulfils the not A/B/C claim. If that's steak then it'd just be rubbish steak.
    Sure there's technically 16 endings if you take account of the small differences, but even the (name presently escapes me) government body it got referred to questioned the integrity of the statements coming from Casey Hudson leading upto the games release.



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  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    the (name presently escapes me) government body
    That was probably the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), based on this story. I haven't heard of any recent news on that issue.

    Earlier this month the British Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) said nothing is really seriously wrong. It concluded as follows:

    "The ASA acknowledged the belief that players' choices in the game did not influence the outcome to the extent claimed by EA.

    However, we considered that the three choices at the end of the game were thematically quite different, and that the availability and effectiveness of those choices would be directly determined by a player's score, which was calculated with reference to previous performance in the game(s).

    We also acknowledge that there appeared to be a large number of minor variations in the end stages of 'Mass Effect 3,' and that those were directly impacted by choices made by players earlier in the game(s).

    Whilst we acknowledged that the advertiser had placed particular emphasis on the role that player choices would play in determining the outcome of the game, we considered that most consumers would realize there would be a finite number of possible outcomes within the game and, because we considered that the advertiser had shown that players' previous choices and performance would impact on the ending of the game, we concluded that the ad was not misleading."
    Last edited by Tritagonist; 25-06-2012 at 03:53 PM.
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