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  1. #161
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus bonkers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Does no-one else thing the destroy waking you up in London +harbringer being named but never spoken to during ME3 cleanly indicates that star child IS harbinger, just in an "in your brain" indoctrination form.?
    Kinda. But what confuses me is that when you have subtitles on, the "So be it" of harbinger is not shown, Stachilds "The Circle continues" is, which kinda makes me think that they are not a single entity (At least for me, or I totally missed it)
    The waking up in London thing always was strange and every will be. The added scenes make it impossible as it would only work if it indeed was indoctrination and Shepard never left earth. But that can't have happend or anything of the newly added stuff would be wrong. Even in the destruction ending, as none of that would have happened without Shepard being on the Citadel.
    For me it looks like they didn't know how to deal with it and didn't have the guts to cut it either. Kinda the same with the story teller grandpa in the end. That guy still doesn't make any sense at all except from "Here is our delicious DLC!". And even there... he doesn't.

    I again chose synthesis and I (still) think it makes sense as much as science fiction can make sense in the first place. And in the end (bad pun intended) I am satisfied with the endings. They didn't fix all and some will still be furious about it but the major things that bugged me (Joker leaving, Mass Relays expoding, etc) have been fixed/adressed and I am fine with that.

    I still think the best ending would have been if they would have cut the whole Starchild thing and made the game give you the ending depending on your playstyle. But well, that didn't happen. Obviously.
    Last edited by bonkers; 27-06-2012 at 03:22 PM.

  2. #162
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Ravelle's Avatar
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    Endings are better but still lazy since they're all the same with a diffferent monologue and a photoshop filter for the synthesis. I still think the rejection option doesn't really make sense, just because I'm not choosing the answers you provide doesn't mean I give up all together. According to bioware that option is the bad ending, yet they forgot to change the popup message to " you failed" and is instead a message saying I defeated the reapers and Shepard being a legend, there shoudn't be a stargaze because of the reapers successful harvest.
    Last edited by Ravelle; 27-06-2012 at 03:25 PM.
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  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Synthesis is flawed because it simply makes no sense at all from a scientific stand point. You can't re-write the DNA of everything in the galaxy with magic space lasers and turn them into synthetic hybrids anymore than you could re-write my DNA and turn me into a cow. A change that drastic to someone's genetic structure would just kill them outright. It also doesn't make sense that suddenly organics have circuits running through them, how did that happen? Synthesis is flawed at it's core, there is no real reason to debate it's finer points.
    Except Cerberus pretty much did that to Shepard at the start of ME2.

    And Reaper tech already re-writes the DNA of people into husks, etc.

    And the Reapers were collecting huge amounts of human DNA to work them into a human Reaper (okay that bit was also stupid) but still.

    To me, the synthesis tech is just reaperisation on a different setting.

  4. #164
    Lesser Hivemind Node Flint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    To me, the synthesis tech is just reaperisation on a different setting.
    Put it this way and yeah, I'm feeling even iffier about synthesis.
    Give me steam and how you feel to make it real.

  5. #165
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asskicker View Post
    And magically being able to control a whole army of reapers and becoming "a god?" is scientifically possible? :P
    I guess the destroy thing is possible if all the reapers were rigged with a self-destruct option.
    Being able to control a bunch of machines.... yup that sounds pretty much impossible. It's not like I'm controlling a machine right now as I type this or anything... OH WAIT.

    As for Shepard becoming a "God", he simply merged his consciousness with that of an AI. It's actually not that far off scientifically speaking, scientists in the real world already theorize that uploading one's consciousness to a computer will be possible once our technology is sufficiently advanced.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading


    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Except Cerberus pretty much did that to Shepard at the start of ME2.

    And Reaper tech already re-writes the DNA of people into husks, etc.

    And the Reapers were collecting huge amounts of human DNA to work them into a human Reaper (okay that bit was also stupid) but still.

    To me, the synthesis tech is just reaperisation on a different setting.
    So your justification for synthesis making no sense is to say "hey, other stuff makes no sense too"? Bleh.

  6. #166
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    No, he's saying it fits in with other things in the ME universe.

  7. #167
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Not really.

  8. #168
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    How is it not? It's believable in the Universe of Mass Effect. It's a bit silly, but it's not like it's out of the blue.

  9. #169
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    How is it not? It's believable in the Universe of Mass Effect. It's a bit silly, but it's not like it's out of the blue.
    No, it's out of the green

  10. #170
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    How is it not? It's believable in the Universe of Mass Effect. It's a bit silly, but it's not like it's out of the blue.
    It really is though. Transforming living creatures into crazy cyborgs is completely different from re-writting their genetic structure to the point that they GROW CIRCUITS.

  11. #171
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Creatures into crazy cyborgs. By squishing them into a pipe. It's not better.
    Last edited by Sketch; 27-06-2012 at 08:51 PM.

  12. #172
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    You guys are showing a real poverty of imagination when it comes to believing what glowy space magic from made up ancient future machines are capable of doing when they release their energy in a controlled galaxy spanning discharge.

    Next you'll be arguing about the feasibility of the Halo ring's ability to destroy all sentient life....

  13. #173
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    whyyoumad.jpgClick for biggah.
    I figured this was worthy, made it myself.
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  14. #174
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    Next you'll be arguing about the feasibility of the Halo ring's ability to destroy all sentient life....
    In ME3 though, the energy discharge just seems forced. I don't think it really helps that the Catalyst was a Deus Ex Machina in the series (although not the case in 3 if you look solely at it as a construct, but still remaining so as the Star Child) that is semi-convincingly shoe-horned in. The Halo weapon system at least for me seems far more palpable. We know what it does, it fits into the canon of the universe with immense ease and is a real threat because we know it works.

    If the discharge didn't come amid of a lot of other random BS, it would probably be ignored. As it stands, it's just one of many feasibility issues with the ending that can only be explained with "Space Magic" even though it, like the Halos, is reasonably demonstrated as just being a force of ancient, immense power.
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  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    Define better in this context.
    That applies to both statements though. Until you find some objective code of law for the galaxy, the only thing to support your stance that free will is a good thing is entirely your own opinion. That's the problem with your argument, it's entirely subjective. Humanity has never to my knowledge managed to create a utopia, nor spawn any immortals, so anything we can say about them is based entirely on opinion rather than fact.
    The other problem with basing anything on literature's interpretations is they have an annoying tendency to be proven wrong. Consider for example Wordsworth's anti-industrialism, or the whole anti-science stance of the classical Gothic writers. Personally I think we're far better off today with the fruits of those things than said authors were without.

    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    As a quick aside, reading on another forum, someone points out that even Joker's hat gains the green lines. I'm sure that's a graphical over-sight, but it is pretty amusing!
    Or his hat is made of an organic material. Such as cotton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Synthesis is flawed because it simply makes no sense at all from a scientific stand point. You can't re-write the DNA of everything in the galaxy with magic space lasers and turn them into synthetic hybrids anymore than you could re-write my DNA and turn me into a cow. A change that drastic to someone's genetic structure would just kill them outright. It also doesn't make sense that suddenly organics have circuits running through them, how did that happen? Synthesis is flawed at it's core, there is no real reason to debate it's finer points.
    Not necessarily. It depends on the change and how it's accomplished (or rather more accurately the nature of the synthesis). In the first case, presumably anything which would be destroyed when rewritten is being replaced with a working synthetic part rather than an organic one. In the second, you could also see it as something akin to giving everyone an injection of some kind of nano-tech rather than a rewrite as such. In fact utilising some form of mechanical oversight of the cellular division and repair processes would result in a much healthier organism.

  16. #176
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archonsod View Post
    Not necessarily. It depends on the change and how it's accomplished (or rather more accurately the nature of the synthesis). In the first case, presumably anything which would be destroyed when rewritten is being replaced with a working synthetic part rather than an organic one. In the second, you could also see it as something akin to giving everyone an injection of some kind of nano-tech rather than a rewrite as such. In fact utilising some form of mechanical oversight of the cellular division and repair processes would result in a much healthier organism.
    Its like trying to argue religion with an atheist or vice versa, dont waste your breath :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki-freakin-pedia
    Clarke's Three Laws are three "laws" of prediction formulated by the British writer and scientist Arthur C. Clarke. They are:
    1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
    2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
    3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    Control ending spoilers
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  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    So your justification for synthesis making no sense is to say "hey, other stuff makes no sense too"? Bleh.
    One bit is.

    My justification is more that if you think it's totally infeasible you'll have stopped playing an hour in to ME2 so will never have seen the synthesis ending.

    I mean the point of half of the third game is that the Geth, despite being synthetics, have free will. We established that biological lifeforms have free will already. So I don't see why synthetics + biological suddenly loses that.

    Will some people be unhappy about it? Sure. If today someone fired a god-ray and gave us all black heads, brown upper bodies and white legs, some people would be upset about it. Some people already get upset that people from other races inter-breed. But most people accept there's no fundamental difference, which is part of what the game is about (and if you disagree, there's a whole ending where you get to wipe out all synthetics instead).

    Even so, bad shit happens to people all the time. People get run over and lose the use of their legs. They didn't want that, they didn't agree to it, but it happened. But they still have free will.

    If you're concerned about free will, I'd be more bothered about 'control' and Shepard running around with a Reaper indoctrination ray.

  18. #178
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    If you're concerned about free will, I'd be more bothered about 'control' and Shepard running around with a Reaper indoctrination ray.
    I envisage whole planets solving problems the Krogan way, yunno, headbutts.
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  19. #179
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    Played it last night. I'm still in two minds about it. Some of it was welcome, even if at times it seemed like they were ticking items off a list of irritating points people had raised. Your squad end up on the Normandy and don't die in the death ray, because Joker comes down and saves them. Joker gets ordered by Hackett to run away from the Citadel, so he's not doing something wildly out of character. The solar system isn't destroyed because the relays aren't blown up in the way they were in the Arrival DLC, they just get a bit broken instead.

    But it didn't do much to fix the main problems the ending had- Starchild is still there, the idea that synthetics will always destroy organics still doesn't wash- even with the extra explanation- and the synthesis and control options are still completely absurd. In fact, those options are even more ridiculous than before- green eyes, transcendence, and interstellar utopia for everyone! Quarians can take off their masks and look exactly like humans with odd knees and feet! Baby Krogans! Ugh.

    Still, I didn't have to pick those. The 'destroy' ending just about works, as does the 'rejection' ending. On balance I'd say it's still a complete shambles, but it's certainly better than what they had before.

  20. #180
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godwhacker View Post
    Baby Krogans!
    I imagine baby krogans to be essentially like baby Zuul from Sword of the Stars.

    Like other marsupials, the Zuul female forcefully ejects her “milk” into the mouths of her offspring while the eyeless, worm-like pups nestle in the safety of her pouch. Unlike ordinary marsupials, however—or ordinary mammals, for that matter—the milk of a Ripper female is not primarily intended to nourish her young. Instead, she secretes a narcotic fluid which is designed to keep her pouchlings dormant. They will remain effectively comatose until the flow of her “milk” has stopped, and will only awaken and begin to grow and develop when she has died, or removed them from her pouch.

    Infant/Larval Phase

    Once the flow of “milk” to an undeveloped Zuul has stopped, it quickly rouses from its dormancy. At this stage of a Ripper’s life, the tiny infant has no eyes, no ears, and only vestigial limbs; the full length of its body is not more than 15 centimeters. Shaken from the sleep induced by its mother’s milk, however, the infant Ripper will obey its one imperative: to eat. Within minutes it will begin to devour all animal and vegetable matter in its path.
    Since they are used almost exclusively for hard and hazardous labor, it is not unusual for a brooding female Zuul to die while carrying a pouch full of young. If she does, the members of her coterie will not be concerned; the mother’s own body immediately becomes a host for the proto-worms sleeping in her pouch.
    Upon awakening, the larval Rippers will tunnel through flesh and bone until every particle of their mother is devoured. However, it is not necessary for a female Zuul to die in order to provide nourishment for her children: she may also remove proto-worms from her pouch at any time and place them within the corpse of a fallen foe, or into any mound of meat or vegetable matter she may have gathered for the purpose of feeding them.
    After an initial burst of growth, the infant Zuul has an average length of 40 centimeters and a mass around two kilograms. Rippers this age greatly resemble the members of the Terran family Mustelidae (weasels, ferrets, etc). Armed with sharp teeth and claws, the young Ripper will also have the keen senses and intelligence of a cat-like predator, combined with a rudimentary telepathic sense. This very primitive instinctive telepathy allows the infant Zuul to detect prey, and to recognize other members of its own species.
    Following their instinctive drives, Zuul of this age will usually form a nest with one or two other infants of the same sex and begin a life of hunting and stock-piling kills. Infant rippers have a metabolism so high that they sleep only rarely; they must hunt constantly for the calories to keep their long, slender bodies warm, and support their rapid growth and development.
    There is no necessary relationship between infant and adult Zuul at this phase. When living on the surface of a planet, it seems to be common practice for adult Zuul to abandon their offspring during infancy and expose them to the elements, forcing them to adapt to the environment or die. Some xenosociologists claim that this is a cultural practice; the high rate of infant mortality may actually be deemed desirable, because only the fittest Zuul will survive the ordeal.
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