Is Direct X 10 A Failure Like Windows Vista? I Feel Cheated!

[squirrel]

After 3 years I am still using ATI HD4870 which only supports DX10 as the most updated DX. I admit that I took advantage of price drop at the time DX11 had been announced and upcoming. Come to think of it, however, I still consider it to be unfair to me. It seems not many games really take full advantage of DX10. A few games which support DX10 doesn't appear to be that graphically enhanced than they are under DX9. DX11, on the other hand, has a much more promising prospect. Now that it has become industrial standard, Dx10 is rather like a luxury than a necessity for PC gaming.

There is a belief among IT geeks here: you should update only every alternative generation for Microsoft product. Say, Windows XP is a great OS, so you should not update it to Win Vista. You should upgrade directly to Windows 7 (And now it comes the Windows 8......)

[Leopig]

Dx11 isn't up to much either from what \i can gather apart from a sparkly dust effect that slows down games.

[Axyl]

This stuff gets me hard..



:P

[Hypernetic]

Yes DX10 was nothing to write home about, many games never even supported it.

[Finicky]

Don't feel cheated, the hd4870 was the last graphics card with really good value for the money (hd5870 cost quite a lot more euros/performance but at least was a decent performance jump if you didn't mind the cost and the 6xxx and 7xxx series are just a total joke as are the nvidia alternatives)

DX11 has been and remains pretty pointless, only 2-3 games make use of it in any meaningful way (soft shadows), tesselation has proven to be a performance hogging, model bloating useless gimmick.

HD4870 is still the best price/perfmormance card out there.

[Sic]

I'm sorry, but this is silly.

DirectX is an API. Developers care about the API, you do not. If you do, you should stop. Right now.

I guess I should direct my sourness towards MS for being stupid enough to market an API to end-users, but whatever. I'll be grumpy here as well. You should know better than to listen to MS marketing.

[johnki]

-video-

:P

I see it, but I don't really get why that's impressive compared to just making a model that looks like what tessellation does.

[Lukasz]

Don't feel cheated, the hd4870 was the last graphics card with really good value for the money (hd5870 cost a LOT more euros/performance and the 6xxx and 7xxx series are just a total joke as are the nvidia alternatives)

DX11 has been and remains pretty pointless, only 2-3 games make use of it in any meaningful way (soft shadows), tesselation has proven to be a performance hogging, model bloating useless gimmick.

HD4870 is still the best price/perfmormance card out there.

i call bs on that as 7870 costs almost the same as 4870 when i bought my 4850
4870 was 330 and 7870 is around 360 bucks. not much difference. performance difference? massive!

I see it, but I don't really get why that's impressive compared to just making a model that looks like what tessellation does.

oh.
the model is done like that. tessellation does not make models. what you see as final product is exactly what an artist created.

tessellation allows to:
Run This Shit Yo!

Trying old school method of drawing detailed models would simply kill your hardware. The tech. allows detailed models to be implemented into the scene without requiring massive amounts of gpu ram and more importantly massive processing powers from gpu. Furthermore is you rewatch the video you can see how tessellation allows models to be drawn less detailed when they are far away adding details the close you get, which saves power.

we need a tech expert tough to properly explain this as my understanding is just basic.

[Hypernetic]

I'm sorry, but this is silly.

DirectX is an API. Developers care about the API, you do not. If you do, you should stop. Right now.

I guess I should direct my sourness towards MS for being stupid enough to market an API to end-users, but whatever. I'll be grumpy here as well. You should know better than to listen to MS marketing.

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

[byteCrunch]

I'm sorry, but this is silly.

DirectX is an API. Developers care about the API, you do not. If you do, you should stop. Right now.

I was just about to mention this, it is the same when people think the engine directly correlates to the graphics quality of the game, "Oooo it uses Cryengine 3, that means it must look good." No it is down to the art team and the programmers.

DirectX is essentially meaningless to the end user. All it is just a simplified API for programming games which encompasses things like rendering, sound etc on Windows.

On another note, developers please start using OpenGL for rendering it is better for everyone, and I would like to add, all these amazing features that were added in DirectX 11, were in OGL long before.

[Sic]

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

I fear you are being unintentionally funny. You should probably stop talking.

[Finicky]

i call bs on that as 7870 costs almost the same as 4870 when i bought my 4850
4870 was 330 and 7870 is around 360 bucks. not much difference. performance difference? massive!


.

I bought my 4870 like 3 months after release and it cost me 168 euros.... And that was one of the nice models with a twin frozer style cooler.

7870 is 320 euros here and that is for the stock cooler versions.


A 7870 is also less than twice as fast as a 4870.

3.5 years have passed since I got my 4870 (now replaced by a 6870 because I was starting to get in console framerate territory and the 512MB vram was a bottleneck at 1600x1200) and it costs twice as much to get nearly twice as much performance.

If that isn't terrible terrible awful value then IDK what is.

7xxx series is horrendously much overpriced.
Seems like you are a victim of the AMD naming shananigans.
Maybe it's just my imagination but hardware has tradionally become faster over the years, yet value as in price/performance has not improved in over 3 years.

[Lukasz]

I bought my 4870 like 3 months after release and it cost me 168 euros.... And that was one of the nice models with a twin frozer style cooler.

7870 is 320 euros here and that is for the stock cooler versions.


A 7870 is also less than twice as fast as a 4870.

3.5 years have passed since I got my 4870 (now replaced by a 6870 because I was starting to get in console framerate territory) and it costs twice as much to get nearly twice as much performance.

If that isn't terrible terrible awful value then IDK what is.

7xxx series is horrendously much overpriced.
Seems like you are a victim of the AMD naming shananigans.

hokay.
4870 was around 320 AUD.
7870 is http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?...cPath=193_1372 from 349 to 369. and the only reason they are higher is because they don't have any competition. Nvidia still did not release a mid range card. so slightly more expensive but not much.
my 4850 was 220 or so AUD. 7850 is 270.

you either got some extremely good deal with your 4870 or you just picked the worst price for 7870.

Furthermore.
So 7870 is less than twice as fast... so? so was 4870 wasn't it?

Seems like you are a victim of the AMD naming shananigans.

the hell that supposed to mean.

anyhow.
Your point is tough.

Graphics cards are currently overpriced. Not only AMD. Nvidia charges same price for same performance. maybe slightly more as last mid range card is still in 250.

[Finicky]

hokay.
4870 was around 320 AUD.
7870 is http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?...cPath=193_1372 from 349 to 369. and the only reason they are higher is because they don't have any competition. Nvidia still did not release a mid range card. so slightly more expensive but not much.
my 4850 was 220 or so AUD. 7850 is 270.

you either got some extremely good deal with your 4870 or you just picked the worst price for 7870.

Furthermore.
So 7870 is less than twice as fast... so? so was 4870 wasn't it?



the hell that supposed to mean.

anyhow.
Your point is tough.

Graphics cards are currently overpriced. Not only AMD. Nvidia charges same price for same performance. maybe slightly more as last mid range card is still in 250.[/COLOR][/LEFT]

Seems like you paid some big aussie tax then, 6 months after release the cards were down to 140 euros here (and they stalled at that price, I remember keeping track because I wanted a second one for crossfire)

I mentioned AMD naming shenanigans because you talked about the 7870 as if it was somehow good value (so assumed you were one of those people who got tricked into believing that the 7xxx cards somehow obliterate the 4870 while in reality a 2x performance increase over 3.5 years is pathetic).
But since you seem to agree that the cards are overpriced that isn't the case afterall.

And competion or no competition, it changes nothing about the value for the buyer.

AMD is the one who set these retarded prices, they are the ones who had 'no competition' from nvidia for a while with their 7970 cards and decided hell why don't we just price them double then.
Then nvidia decided to just base their pricing on the 7970 price.

I keep wondering who is stupid enough to keep buying these things that they are apparently selling enough of them to keep up these prices.

[Kaira-]

On another note, developers please start using OpenGL for rendering it is better for everyone, and I would like to add, all these amazing features that were added in DirectX 11, were in OGL long before.

But this comes from MS, so obviously all these features are never before seen and original work of MS, much like the new file transfer dialogue in Win8 or.... most of the things MS has "borrowed" from here and there.

[Lukasz]

I keep wondering who is stupid enough to keep buying these things that they are apparently selling enough of them to keep up these prices.

they are selling them because they are better than 6000 and there is no competition. 570 is the only choice if you want a midrange card as 670 is fucking even more overpriced isn't it? and 570 is overall worse than 7870.

the biggest reason is nvidia selling their stuff at extremely high price. 690 is 1600 bucks here.
and not releasing any mid-range cards (aka 350 AUD or less)

that was not the case in 4870 time when there was a price war between those two companies. now both are selling out their whole offering with ease and cannot keep up with production. no need for prices to go down.

So instead of saying AMD is overpriced.
Graphics cards are overpriced. all of them.

[Finicky]

they are selling them because they are better than 6000 and there is no competition. 570 is the only choice if you want a midrange card as 670 is fucking even more overpriced isn't it? and 570 is overall worse than 7870.

the biggest reason is nvidia selling their stuff at extremely high price. 690 is 1600 bucks here.
and not releasing any mid-range cards (aka 350 AUD or less)

that was not the case in 4870 time when there was a price war between those two companies. now both are selling out their whole offering with ease and cannot keep up with production. no need for prices to go down.

So instead of saying AMD is overpriced.
Graphics cards are overpriced. all of them.

They are barely faster than the gtx 570-580, are people's cards breaking that fast or something that they somehow need a new minor upgrade for too many dollars?

This isn't bread, water or oxygen we are talking about, what possesses people to buy these things en masse when it's such poor value and a pretty minor upgrade from what existed 2 years ago (gtx 560ti-570-580)

You can't seriously be arguing that people will just pay WHATEVER for the newest gimmick/toy as long as it's the only new toy available.

Point still stands for my first post btw:p the OP shouldn't feel bad he got a nice card way back then for a nice price and it lasted him a very long time (and is still good today if you are happy with slightly lower settings and no AA at 40-50 fps)

It just got kinda derailed.

I didn't single out AMD as overpriced either, it was just pointless to mention nvidia since they don't have a mid range card (they do but they called it gtx 680 and sell it for 550 euros...) Nvidia haven't had a good value card since the 8800gt (and the one off gtx 460 while it was cheap).
Nvidia have always been thieves.

[Lukasz]

They are barely faster than the gtx 570-580, are people's cards breaking that fast or something that they somehow need a new minor upgrade for too many dollars?

why are you assuming people buy 7000 when they own 6000 or 570?

some do. but i would presume most people skip generations (plural) I still sit on 4850 served me well since release and if not my cpu it would serve me for whole 2011 at 1680x1050.
so if i were to actually upgrade this year (supposed to but decided it is not worth at the moment. still might do an upgrade around september) i would get 7870 as it does seem to be the best card for the money. unless you will suggest something else when i create the thread asking for advice.

anyhow. yay for derail. Sorry OP.

i agree with people who say that it really is not important the tech. but how well artists use given tech. so directx 9 games can still looks awesomely (mirror's edge!!)

[djbriandamage]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Xbox 360 is only capable of DX9 which, due to the proliferation of cross-platform games, may be a reason why DX10 is so rarely a requirement. Many PC-only games (particularly MMOs) leverage DX10 and DX11 but fall back on a DX9 minimum requirement.

[wuwul]

Next generation consoles will most likely have DirectX 11 level GPUs, which should cause a drastic increase in the number of DX11 games.

Regarding DX11 tessellation, the whole point is that it is smoothly adaptive, so the close-up of a face can have a million polygons, while the face of a person far away only requires a thousand, and a DX11 GPU can morph between the two polygonal models without discontinuities, and without the CPU doing any work.

The result is that you can get perfectly smooth geometry with much better performance than otherwise.