View Poll Results: What should the new look divisions look like?

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  • No change! I fear change!

    12 29.27%
  • Triplets! I love triplets!

    9 21.95%
  • GC's lovely 1-2-quad based tier system. It's clearly the best!

    20 48.78%
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  1. #5501
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    If you want a bashy team I would go with Nurgle.

    The warriors are brutes, you get 4 of em, the big guy is a monster, the goats are adaptable and have horns, and the cheap players are cheap.

    You also have mutation skill access for claw.

  2. #5502
    Lesser Hivemind Node ntw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWZippy View Post
    John just decimated me 4-0. Honestly, I've been destroyed this entire league by TV differences of over 500. There has to be something we can do about this? I've earnt barely 20 ssp, and 5 of the ssp I did earn on a mummy went to nothing because he died - meaning my TV only goes downwards. I'm now hovering at TV 880.

    Also, I haven't knocked anyone down in 2 games without using a re-roll. I guess what I'm trying to ask is - is there some big secret you're all using to kick me around the field as two different teams, I've had 1 TD in 6 matches. Even the undead, a team that is supposed to be "bashy" has been outbashed by Wood Elves.

    I'm just so demoralised I don't really understand what I'm doing wrong and why everything seems to go against me, even when it's supposed to be "random".
    Normally we allow people to play a few extra matches outside the DoD if there is an obvious and noticeable TV difference, this time we had to shift some teams around hurriedly to get the season started reasonably promptly so PresterJohn was kinda dropped on you. Additionally both Squirrel and Cyber have been around for a few seasons so their teams have had a chance to develop.

    Without knowing you or having played against you I can't say if you are missing a secret strategy, but I can emphasise that playing against RealLiveInternetPeoples is nothing like playing against the AI. Basic principles for me are to do the easy things first, try and always get 2D blocks, and avoid GFIs because they always fail for me ;)

    As for rebooting, feel free to try another team. Norse are reasonably good for battering things I hear (universal block is a good start) but fragile. As I mentioned before - if someone alerts us to a TV difference (we have many things to check, organise and fix, we cannot remember to look at everyone's TV as well!) then we will try and arrange a few friendlies to get the gap closed somewhat.
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  3. #5503
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everblue View Post
    If you want a bashy team I would go with Nurgle.

    The warriors are brutes, you get 4 of em, the big guy is a monster, the goats are adaptable and have horns, and the cheap players are cheap.

    You also have mutation skill access for claw.
    Nurgle is really not a beginner team. They are hard to develop, have an awful offense (no block) and can get you in a downward attrition spiral fast. Rotters have Decay. They only cost 40k, but you'll often loose them faster than you can replace them. And they are the only cheap players on the roster. 80k Pestigors, 110k Warriors, 140k Beast.

    Of course a developed Nurgle team can be lovely, but it is really hard to play it well.

  4. #5504
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Personally I'd discourage Dwarves as I find them exceptionally dull.
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  5. #5505
    Network Hub potatoedoughnut's Avatar
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    Any bashy team is going to rely moderately to fairly heavily on positioning. In general they are slow, so you need to think about where your players are and position carefully to maximize bashing and not get out-maneuvered. No team is able to stand up to every opponent and just beat them down, especially out of the box. You need to know when you can go all out punchy and when you need to play more standoffish, or know when your opponents will just slip away due to dodge or side-step.

    Basically it comes down to just experience. It sounds like this season was exceptionally tough for a starter team.

    Regarding team choice undead are good to learn with, as are humans. Orcs would be good too, but are full. Nurgle is tough due to lack of starting skills and slow development, and I wouldn't recommend them to a new coach. Norse and amazon could be good, but you will take some injuries due to low av, but you'll start with lots of skills which is nice for a new coach.

    Basically keep your head up. Don't be afraid to lose horribly, it will happen, just try and take some new knowledge away from the game (how to do some sweet crowd-pushes (or prevent them), or a team with lots of dodge is slippery, a new way of caging or screening, etc etc).
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  6. #5506
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    DWZippy: Clearly it was bad luck to lose a Mummy in your debut season. Losing a core positional in your opening game or two is just one of those random things you can do nothing about that will set back development. Normally I’d say stick with it and build your team, but the general vibe I’m getting is you’re not happy with the Undead style.

    Orcs are the best beginner team so I suggest you reroll to them. They are full at the moment, but I’ve been mulling over rerolling; if you want them I’ll definitely cede my Orc slot to you.

  7. #5507
    Network Hub Rakysh's Avatar
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    I'll vote for Orcs as well, DW, but I would also say that playing some FUMBBL is a good way to improve as a coach. I'm sure you've been unlucky to lose the mummy early on, but who couldn't use some extra practice? Matches are quicker than Cyanide and more easily available, and in general the standard of opponent is higher at lower levels, if you see what I mean, (no offence guys, it's just they all play like 24/7) so you end up picking up good techniques more quickly. Also, if you're nice people will definitely give you tips on what you did wrong so that's good. I played FUMBBL for a few weeks and it quickly turned me from the poor player I was to the decidedly mediocre-but-lucky one I am today.
    Last edited by Rakysh; 24-06-2012 at 06:34 AM.

  8. #5508
    Network Hub JayTee's Avatar
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    I'd say not Khemri in case you were pondering them as a bashy team. They have next-to-zero ball handling ability so any mistakes that cost you position or the ball, will likely end up with the opposing team scoring. It's very hard to get the ball back once you've lost it. They do teach you very important lessons about positioning, marking and not-marking, and the art of the tactical foul with your cheapass Skeletons, but they can be highly frustrating to play with (and against!).

  9. #5509
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    @DWZippy:
    The biggest problem with all bashy teams is that they're pretty much all slow to develop. This means that if you get unlucky early on (as you clearly were this season), you'll be slow to recover from it (and continue taking a beating while you do).

    As a beginner, my favourite team to learn with was actually Amazons. They're a very solid team, that does extremely well at lower levels. Their problem is that they can be fragile (AV 7 across the board I believe), and their advantage of starting with Dodge on every player gets weaker and weaker as you get to higher TVs. As such, I'm not sure I'd recommend them as your DoD team, but try playing some random matches against other opponents outside and get a better feel for the game. Personally, they gave me a huge amount of confidence which then allowed me to come into the DoD playing as other teams.

  10. #5510
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LowKey's Avatar
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    If it is any consolation I too lost to wood elves 4-0 this season, they are and always will be bastards no matter how far you get :)

  11. #5511
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear you had a rough season.

    There's lots of good advice here already but whether or not you want to stick it out as undead, you can learn a lot from reading the articles on BBTactics.com for general play advice and your team's strategies (and your opponent's).

  12. #5512
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    There's been plenty of constructive advice offered to DWZippy here (which is lovely by the way, this is a great community), so I'll just add a little personal flavour. You're not alone in getting a bit of a shoeing at the beginning. My Khemri lost every game in my first season, conceding 8 touchdowns and scoring none. I was pretty gutted too, but since then I've had three promotions. Sometimes things just go awry and you have to write a season off, such is Blood Bowl.

  13. #5513
    Just adding my grain of salt here. BB is a game with lotsa rules. I don't know how familiar you are with the rules, but if you haven't done so yet, you should have a read through the living rulebook : http://www.bloodbowlonline.com/Rules.shtml.
    You'll soon realise that the game is in fact pretty random and the main difficulty of the game will be to reduce the randomness (or at least order it to make sure the important stuff occurs before the turnover).
    My point being : are you sure you want to play a bashy team? Maybe, to start with, you want to get the grips with the game using a team that's fairly neutral (like the humans). Then, from that reference, you may want to opt to change team to another that reflects more what you aspire to.

  14. #5514
    Lesser Hivemind Node NieA7's Avatar
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    I still reckon dwarfs are an excellent team to learn bash with seeing as they pretty much can't do anything else. You start out with sure hands on the carriers and the rest of the team are only 6SPP away from getting guard, which is really the key bash trait (more so than strength I reckon). However, that said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Personally I'd discourage Dwarves as I find them exceptionally dull.
    This is unquestionably true. Orcs are more fun and have arguably the most interesting starting roster in the game, though they start to suffer a bit at high TV.

    And just to backup what Screwie said, BBTactics is an awesome place to start learning the ins and outs of the game.

  15. #5515
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakysh View Post
    Matches are quicker than Cyanide and more easily available, and in general the standard of opponent is higher at lower levels, if you see what I mean, (no offence guys, it's just they all play like 24/7) so you end up picking up good techniques more quickly. Also, if you're nice people will definitely give you tips on what you did wrong so that's good.
    Now that you mention it, which format have you been playing? BlackBox seems to be pretty awful with all the TV "optimised" ClawPOMB teams around.

  16. #5516
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic View Post
    Now that you mention it, which format have you been playing? BlackBox seems to be pretty awful with all the TV "optimised" ClawPOMB teams around.
    Claw is not worth it unless you are hitting AV9, and AV 9 is generally not worth hitting for other reasons (slow, not ball carriers, poor agility so you are marking them)

    There are 3 things worth Clawing Krox, Saurus and Orc blitzer, all are MV6, which is disgustingly fast for something so tough,additionally the MV8 AV8+Regen of the necromantic werewolf is unprecedented in its its turbo toughness no wonder these 3 sides are full.
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  17. #5517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Claw is not worth it unless you are hitting AV9, and AV 9 is generally not worth hitting for other reasons (slow, not ball carriers, poor agility so you are marking them)

    There are 3 things worth Clawing Krox, Saurus and Orc blitzer, all are MV6, which is disgustingly fast for something so tough,additionally the MV8 AV8+Regen of the necromantic werewolf is unprecedented in its its turbo toughness no wonder these 3 sides are full.
    On its own, yeah MB is considerably better. But when you get Claw+MB+PO together the combination really is monstrously overpowered.

    Particularly when the TV system lets you run around with a pair of legendary Block/Tackle/Frenzy/Claw/MB/PO killers and a bunch of rookie linemen at around 1200 TV, so can completely destroy almost-new teams with a minimum of effort. So broken.

  18. #5518
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Claw is not worth it unless you are hitting AV9, and AV 9 is generally not worth hitting for other reasons (slow, not ball carriers, poor agility so you are marking them)

    There are 3 things worth Clawing Krox, Saurus and Orc blitzer, all are MV6, which is disgustingly fast for something so tough,additionally the MV8 AV8+Regen of the necromantic werewolf is unprecedented in its its turbo toughness no wonder these 3 sides are full.
    That's not really true. Everything above AV7 is worth attacking with claw, especially in combination with MB and maybe Piling On. Removing players from the pitch is the way many Chaos teams play and Claw is an exceptionally effective tool for that. I don't see how non-ball carriers are not worth hitting. They supply tackle zones, can screen and assist and open up further options for your play.

    The FUMBBL BlackBox (the matchmaking system working by TV) is the best example for that. The amount of TV-optimised Chaos killer teams in there is insane. The ClawPOMB combination is so good that many people have demanded a rule rework for these skills.
    Last edited by Squiz; 24-06-2012 at 12:20 PM.

  19. #5519
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic View Post
    That's not really true. Everything above AV7 is worth attacking with claw
    Yes, but claw isn't free, its not a zero sum equation. Anyone who can take claw just got a mutation roll, So other than Chaos and Nurgle a double was rolled, Chaos and Nurgle have GSM so a wide range of useful abilities, even if they already had piling on,mighty blow, Block, Dodge,Tackle and stand firm/sidestep are you really tellin me that -1 av against a few, -2av vs a few more and nothing vs the rest is worth a whole skill?

    Edit: I'd take jump up over claw on a double, every time and for GSM every up gets to choose from an embarrassment of riches.
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 24-06-2012 at 12:30 PM.
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  20. #5520
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Well, you don't have to take Claw on a lot of players to have a thread on the field. Claw + MB makes every armor paper thin (AV6). It's the same with Tackle, it is effective against a lot of players and then sometimes you are carrying dead weight. Here is some discussion about the maths behind the combo, I think the chance of sending a player off the field when knocking him down and accepting the use of Piling On is something around 58%.

    Now when you've got one or two of these dedicated killers on your team (mostly Chaos due to easy M access) you are very likely to clear the pitch quickly. This doesn't win you the match of course, but your opponent gets hurt a lot. When you're playing a team with expensive players or guys that rely on having their big muscles doing their job, your whole play can collapse after facing a few of these teams.

    It's more a problem of match making where many teams can't withstand the punishment that well at low TV, but I would still think twice before going against a Claw-heavy Chaos team.

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