View Poll Results: What should the new look divisions look like?

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  • No change! I fear change!

    12 29.27%
  • Triplets! I love triplets!

    9 21.95%
  • GC's lovely 1-2-quad based tier system. It's clearly the best!

    20 48.78%
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  1. #5701
    Lesser Hivemind Node ntw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowKey View Post
    So i was thinking of giving my minotaur tentacles...
    I misread that as -
    Quote Originally Posted by LowKey View Post
    So i was thinking of giving my minotaur testicles...
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  2. #5702
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mrpier's Avatar
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    I also have a rat ogre on my team, most of the time he's better left alone where he is, preferably with a couple of victims beside him, but that really is optional.

  3. #5703
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Rat Ogres and Minotaurs are very similar players and yet wildly different. It's all about the context: one of them is on a team with full access to Strength skills, decent to good armour throughout, and a handful of Str4 players. The other very much isn't. A single str-up on a chaos warrior will get you a reliable minotaur with better armour, who doesn't have to roll doubles to get block and who comes with 3Ag out of the box so can carry the ball if you feel like it.

  4. #5704
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Just remember they will be targeted mercilessly.
    They are Halflings. They don't care. Also: Positional play lets you keep some guys secure.

    Quote Originally Posted by PresidentWeasel
    Then I discovered that a minotaur is a TV-bloating turnover generator who will let you down at the worst moments, waste your blitzes with wild animal, and loner the reroll. There was one memorable match in particular where the mino was directly responsible for three TDs for the opponents. So I sacked it.
    I see it this way: The risk of loosing your Blitz action on the turn you really need it (meaning the turn you can't Blitz with any other player on the team, St4 all over the board is quite ok) makes it really really hard to justify developing a Minotaur in that direction.

    However, having a St5 tentacle guy as a roadblock that doesn't loose his tackle zones through his nega-trait is quite something. The guy can still block, after all. You just shouldn't rely on it.

  5. #5705
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post

    My plan for my witch elf (and maybe the second one, if I ever buy her) is a winger and crowdsurfing monster, for which I think Block is more useful for than Wrestle. Jump Up has synergy with many awesome skills but I would rather she stay standing (with Side Step and Tackle eventually) than be pushed to the ground on the first block she takes, leaving an opening on the flank for the ball or a gang foul.
    Without getting into a wider tactical discussion it isn’t a bad thing to leave space for the ball down the flank if you want a demon surfer WE. When coaching them I play two defences almost exclusively; an asymmetrical set up leaving one flank totally open or a strong centre with just one player holding each flank. Life is much easier when the opposing coach does what you want rather than force you to react to him.

    Why do you feel Block is better for this role? Wrestle would always be my skill of choice if I was building her with this role in mind. You ideally want Juggs on a double which has great synergy with Wrestle and Strip Ball. With Block Juggs becomes a bit meh on a team with no strength access.

    1 in 9 times you’ll roll some combination of skulls/both downs and not get to Frenzy. With Block you’ll be left with the choice of dodging out or giving up a free hit. Either way you let them off the hook. The Wrestle Witch puts the opponent on the floor, probably marked up by an assister on the block. If he just stands up you can jump up and surf next turn so you win. If he blitzes off the marker you’ve controlled how he uses his most valuable tool that turn so you win. If he dodges out he risks a turnover, may burn a reroll and as he lost three MV standing up and probably had to dodge away from his destination to get into the open he’ll be out of position for a further turn or may well attempt a GFI or two. Opponent rolling more D6 is always a win. If he fouls you he is far more likely to lose a player than you (stupid foul nerf).

  6. #5706
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic View Post
    They are Halflings. They don't care.
    Oh, yeah, its just if you ever get +AG on a fling you might want to use a sneaky git to draw fire... I was talking about getting targeted as a pro.
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  7. #5707
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus groovychainsaw's Avatar
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    Ok chaps, here begins the long march to new divisional structures. How exciting!

    Season ended yesterday, with only 2 games outstanding, Phill and Al Hutton in B, and Walrus and Eard in 7. Currently standing as a 0-0 in the walrus/eard game (no posts in the groups from either) and a 2-0 to Al Hutton as I can't see a post from Phill.

    Now that's out of the way, I've started doing the promotions/demotions as usual, converting them into which tier pool you fall into. Once each pool is full, we'll have the 'live steamchat draw!' (time to be announced) to tell you where you are going*. I still need to finish up the defaults etc. and assign everyone a division before this, so this might happen tonight, but its more likely to happen over the weekend. IF YOU ARE CHANGING, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE MARKED YOURSELF AS REBOOTING OR LEAVING ON THE SHEET!. It really helps :-). Plus, if someone has spotted a post from someone saying they're leaving that I've missed, feel free to mark someone else up as Z. Don't abuse this (obviously), but it should be everyone's responsibility to make sure they're marked up correctly before the pools are created (so, check noone's Z'ded you out).


    * The draw will be seeded (ish) so you will not be able to play more than 1 person again from the previous season. How this will work is if a second person who you played against the previous season is drawn, it will be returned to the 'hat' and another draw will be made. Simple, huh?
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  8. #5708
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice Zoraster, it's food for thought.

    To be brief, my choice of Block over Wrestle is because I would count on her remaining standing and still providing an obstacle and tackle zone until her next turn.

  9. #5709
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    That is what your AV8 players are for unless things are going horribly wrong :) Also don't underestimate the value of prone players as obstacles: they are uniquely immovable without committing the numbers to a foul or chain push. It is something to keep in mind when selecting which square to hit from with a Wrestler. A prone Witch coupled with her standard Blodge SSing support Blitzer can shut down an entire flank in ideal circumstances. Obviously that is rare, but you also have 9 other players so...

  10. #5710
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Cheers for your very convincing advice. Time to look over my skill plans again tonight, I guess. :)

    I already have the prereq Blodge SS blitzer at least :D

  11. #5711
    Lesser Hivemind Node cyberpunkdreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Also for some high grade bastardry I suggest a bombardier with Hail Mary Pass(its a double but its the only skill he needs to be exceptional), I was testing it out in single player, you use it like you would do any mortar, you choose a general area clear of friendlies and drop death into it, you might miss 3 times out of 4, but its very safe.
    I've also tried this in single player. It's pure craziness and very fun ;).

  12. #5712
    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Just remember they will be targeted mercilessly.
    As opposed to...? ;)
    Edit: And will take some heat off the treemen who would actually do damage, what's not to like.

  13. #5713
    Activated Node Walrus's Avatar
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    Sorry about not making the deadline on the game. But I had a pretty hectic week.

  14. #5714
    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    I was talking about getting targeted as a pro.
    So we agree ;)

  15. #5715
    Activated Node smaug81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President Weasel View Post
    Rat Ogres and Minotaurs are very similar players and yet wildly different. It's all about the context: one of them is on a team with full access to Strength skills, decent to good armour throughout, and a handful of Str4 players. The other very much isn't. A single str-up on a chaos warrior will get you a reliable minotaur with better armour, who doesn't have to roll doubles to get block and who comes with 3Ag out of the box so can carry the ball if you feel like it.
    QFT.

    Incidentally, I found much of what goes for Minotaurs to hold true for Yhetee as well. They look like they might be a better option on paper, since Norse aren't as high strength across the board, and having one more player with decent armor is always helpful. The built in Claws should also help in theory with cutting through more heavily armored opponents.

    In practice, though, I felt like my team dropped in effectiveness the moment I hired one. He was inevitably left behind by the course of play, standing off to the side somewhere with a lineman tying him down. The lack of Block and the possibility of failing WA and losing my blitz made me hesitant to take the actions necessary to keep him where he was useful. This was only exacerbated by the fact that I'd far rather be blitzing with my Berserkers or Ulfwereners, who were generally more likely to actually get a knockdown and cause some damage.

  16. #5716
    Lesser Hivemind Node cyberpunkdreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smaug81 View Post
    In practice, though, I felt like my team dropped in effectiveness the moment I hired one. He was inevitably left behind by the course of play, standing off to the side somewhere with a lineman tying him down. The lack of Block and the possibility of failing WA and losing my blitz made me hesitant to take the actions necessary to keep him where he was useful. This was only exacerbated by the fact that I'd far rather be blitzing with my Berserkers or Ulfwereners, who were generally more likely to actually get a knockdown and cause some damage.
    It's always a hazard with frenzying big guys that they'll get pulled way out of position. The lack of agility means you really have to keep throwing the blocks. If that's tying up your opponent's big guy or another key player, then fair enough, but you have to be really careful that it doesn't happen just with a lino or something.

    I think a key thing to remember with all big guys, especially if they've got scary killing skills, is that even if they don't appear to do much during a match, they can deeply affect your opponent's game plan just by being there. As during WWII, Turpitz didn't sail into combat once, ever, but just the fact she was hanging out around Norway meant that the Allies had to expend a lot of effort protecting convoys, just in case. It's the same with your big guy... kinda sorta maybe-ish.

  17. #5717
    Network Hub JayTee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by groovychainsaw View Post
    Season ended yesterday, with only 2 games outstanding, Phill and Al Hutton in B, and Walrus and Eard in 7. Currently standing as a 0-0 in the walrus/eard game (no posts in the groups from either) and a 2-0 to Al Hutton as I can't see a post from Phill.
    My match with Wolfenswan needs to be defaulted to a draw in Division 2, it's still showing up as unplayed in-game thanks to the genius brilliance of Cyanide netcode.

  18. #5718
    Lesser Hivemind Node sketchseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberpunkdreams View Post
    It's always a hazard with frenzying big guys that they'll get pulled way out of position.
    This happened to me in my second game of the season, Norse against Chaos - the only strong chance I had of cracking his defensive wall, my Ulfwerener, frenzied right through the line which just closed up behind him, leaving him isolated and useless and the rest of my team trying to get in position to throw 2D blocks and mostly only being able to make 1D blocks against Warriors.

    I remain unconvinced by Yhetis or Minotaurs - I think the appeal of a big hurty thing in the middle of the pitch can be pretty strong but they just end up hanging out on the LOS as the play flows around them. Inevitably, a Bonehead or Wild Animal roll will fail at precisely the most inconvenient time.

  19. #5719
    Lesser Hivemind Node ntw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by groovychainsaw View Post
    Ok chaps, here begins the long march to new divisional structures. How exciting!

    Season ended yesterday, with only 2 games outstanding, Phill and Al Hutton in B, and Walrus and Eard in 7. Currently standing as a 0-0 in the walrus/eard game (no posts in the groups from either) and a 2-0 to Al Hutton as I can't see a post from Phill.

    Now that's out of the way, I've started doing the promotions/demotions as usual, converting them into which tier pool you fall into. Once each pool is full, we'll have the 'live steamchat draw!' (time to be announced) to tell you where you are going*. I still need to finish up the defaults etc. and assign everyone a division before this, so this might happen tonight, but its more likely to happen over the weekend. IF YOU ARE CHANGING, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE MARKED YOURSELF AS REBOOTING OR LEAVING ON THE SHEET!. It really helps :-). Plus, if someone has spotted a post from someone saying they're leaving that I've missed, feel free to mark someone else up as Z. Don't abuse this (obviously), but it should be everyone's responsibility to make sure they're marked up correctly before the pools are created (so, check noone's Z'ded you out).


    * The draw will be seeded (ish) so you will not be able to play more than 1 person again from the previous season. How this will work is if a second person who you played against the previous season is drawn, it will be returned to the 'hat' and another draw will be made. Simple, huh?
    I've taken a copy of the current sheet (for archive purposes) and will finish off converting the sheets to the new format over the next few days.
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  20. #5720
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus groovychainsaw's Avatar
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    I think the 'deterrent' value is high, as cyberpunk says. They're not (that) easy to knock down, and whilst they can be tied up with one player, they still exert a tackle zone across 3 squares. My usual plan for my human ogre is 'don't move, stay still, hit someone (as the last option in a turn) if they come close and have checked there's no gap if you do fall over'. This works well when he has stand firm and guard. 'Course, because I'm slightly mad, he has break tackle as well, just in case I'm faced with a str4+ ball carrier and can blitz. This doesn't happen so often now that I have my str5 blitzer :-).

    Likewise, with a claw/mighty blow yhetee, he's an even bigger deterrent, particularly to bashy teams who will hate those claws. They can mark him with a lineman, but they're giving you a free AV6 effective hit that's not likely to trigger wild animal - that lineman might not last very long, and you don't lose the tackle zones even on a wild animal roll. So there's no downside to using him as a roadblock. If no-one's next to him, don't move (unless you want to - you don't lose the tackle zones either way). If there is, punch them. The biggest issue with my old yhetee was his AV8 causing him to get killed shortly after gaining mighty blow (and my norse had other issues - lets not go there, eh?).
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