View Poll Results: What should the new look divisions look like?

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  • No change! I fear change!

    12 29.27%
  • Triplets! I love triplets!

    9 21.95%
  • GC's lovely 1-2-quad based tier system. It's clearly the best!

    20 48.78%
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  1. #6141
    Network Hub The Brain's Avatar
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    I don't like the look of that at all. Looks like I'm facing a bunch of super rats for my last game.

  2. #6142
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    Div F: Lucky Lycanthropes (Nec) vs. Beauty and the Beast (WElf)

    My Lycanthropes won the toss and elected to receive. They began a slow, cautious advance, focused more on elf-murder than necessarily getting progress. And the strategy immediately paid off, with one elf self-KO'ing on a failed dodge and another getting BH by a flesh golem. The cage stalled pretty badly near the half-line, though, in part due to my ignoring Prester John's seriously impressive amount of Wrestle. But the necros' advance was inexorable (and helped by another elven dodge-KO). Beauty and the Beast did knock down the ball carrier once, but after a series of bounces his fellow ghoul got the ball. The elves did get a good last-ditch attempt, with a Wardancer Leap-Strip-Balling it free on turn 8, but the necros recovered the ball and ran it in on turn 8. 1-0.

    The second half started out much more promisingly for Prester John. My necros rolled a Blitz! on the kickoff; but I'd taken too long picking my kick location, so the ball was pretty far back. A werewolf got underneath the ball, but wasn't able to catch it. The elves successfully received, then, and got my necros spread out all over the pitch. Prester John made his play; hand-off to a thrower, who ran downfield and threw it to a catcher. And wonder of wonders, guess who makes the interception but David Bowie? My senior Flesh Golem. At that point, I regrouped my team (which involved another once-in-a-million Flesh Golem Dodge), caged up, and pushed downfield. On turn 13 David Bowie ran in the touchdown. 2-0. The elves pulled essentially the same play again after the kickoff, but without the interception; they made an effortless two-turner. 2-1. And in my final two turns, I pulled a lovely hand-off-to-a-werewolf, for a turn 16 TD. 3-1.

    Lucky Lycanthropes 3 - 1 Beauty and the Beast


    A delightful game! Prester John was an excellent opponent, hampered by dice that tended to favor me. Reviewing the numbers in BBM shows that the advantage wasn't all that overwhelming, but stood out on a few key rolls (particularly that FG interception, but also two Elven dodge-KOs and one dodge-BH). A morning well-spent. (And as an added bonus, both my FGs leveled up. Muahaha.)

  3. #6143
    Activated Node Cacamas's Avatar
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    Dandy-Lions 3 - 3 The Top Brass

    * An entertaining match that could've gone either way a number of times.
    * There was a surfeit of elfy play with a caught blitz, outrageous dodging and plenty of passing.
    * Except for that one time where my experienced thrower decided to massively fumble when it would've been easier to hit the target, leading to a quick-fire TD for the opposition.
    * There were 5 (!) thrown rocks, including one that must have been a boulder since it hit two touching players at once.

  4. #6144
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somanyrobots View Post
    Woodelf murder
    Any lasting injuries on the bloody Elves?
    Forum janitor in training.

  5. #6145
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cacamas View Post
    * There were 5 (!) thrown rocks, including one that must have been a boulder since it hit two touching players at once.
    Yikes! That sounds like a nightmare of a game.

  6. #6146
    Network Hub JayTee's Avatar
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    Booo, nothing exciting (+MV/+AV on a Skeleton. Bleh) on my 2 level ups.

    Kick for the Skeleton. I pondered building up another Dirty Player, but since I didn't roll a Double which would have been an automatic Sneaky Git for me, I figured having Kick and thus slightly more control over the ball on Defence is better.

    Block/Dodge/Fend on my Thro-Ra which makes him a decent carrier (If he can pick the damned ball up) so a standard roll didn't really leave a whole lot of options. None of the Passing skills are useful on an AG2 player except perhaps HMP but that could come later maybe. Pity Nerves of Steel doesn't help you pick up the ball in TZs, which is one crippling weakness of Khemri teams. Bad enough picking up an unmarked ball with AG2, let alone if you've got a TZ or two on it.

    Pro was out because with Sure Hands he's already got a re-roll for the thing he's most likely to be doing, Leader was an option but since my team only has a single Tackle on a Blitz-Ra I figured more players to cancel Dodges would be a good thing.

    All told this puts my TV at 1890 which assuming Dogpants doesn't take any injuries or levels, gives him an obnoxious 400k in inducements. Ugh.

  7. #6147
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    Kick off return? Gives you the chance to be under the ball when it lands and hence more chance to grab the bugger.

  8. #6148
    Network Hub JayTee's Avatar
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    Already on Thro-Ra #2 and there's generally little point on having it on both especially if I keep my KOR Thro-Ra off-field on Defence and/or away from MB/PO players.

  9. #6149
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Sneaky git is pointless. Aim for a 3+ armor break(4 assists are not too hard to find) . And you are looking at 97% the same as sneaky git.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  10. #6150
    Network Hub JayTee's Avatar
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    I seem to remember arguing for Sneaky Git a while ago, and a quick forum search says yes I did. As I said last time, Sneaky Git stops a fail (Not breaking armour) turning into a Critical Fail (Not breaking armour, sending off, Turnover). I stand by this, I think I've fouled with my existing DP/SG Skeleton at least once every match since he picked up SG and I've very rarely regretted the decision to foul.

    Sure it's less useful against low AV opponents or where you're already winning the numbers game, but the same could be said for a lot of skills such as Claw.

    Besides, what else are my bench-Skeletons going to do? I like the idea of being able to churn out dedicated foulers, it tends to scare people off from Pile-On, risky Dodges, and the like knowing that their star Elf is going to get stamped on by a trash Skeleton if he ends up on the floor.

  11. #6151
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayTee View Post
    I seem to remember arguing for Sneaky Git a while ago, and a quick forum search says yes I did. As I said last time, Sneaky Git stops a fail (Not breaking armour) turning into a Critical Fail (Not breaking armour, sending off, Turnover). I stand by this, I think I've fouled with my existing DP/SG Skeleton at least once every match since he picked up SG and I've very rarely regretted the decision to foul.

    Sure it's less useful against low AV opponents or where you're already winning the numbers game, but the same could be said for a lot of skills such as Claw.

    Besides, what else are my bench-Skeletons going to do? I like the idea of being able to churn out dedicated foulers, it tends to scare people off from Pile-On, risky Dodges, and the like knowing that their star Elf is going to get stamped on by a trash Skeleton if he ends up on the floor.
    The other good thing about sneaky git is the ability to throw in some throwaway fouls. Its generally not possible to set up a gang foul every turn so its nice to be able to throw in a sneaky git foul at the end of a turn on the off chance it actually succeeds. Little or no risk involved and ensures the downed player is marked up.

  12. #6152
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20phoenix View Post
    The other good thing about sneaky git is the ability to throw in some throwaway fouls. Its generally not possible to set up a gang foul every turn so its nice to be able to throw in a sneaky git foul at the end of a turn on the off chance it actually succeeds. Little or no risk involved and ensures the downed player is marked up.
    Yeah, I was about to post the same thing when I came to the end of the thread and saw you already had.

    A cheap sneaky git and no other skills player can basically just stamp on someone at the end of every turn. They'll almost certainly be stamping on more expensive players than themselves, meaning a successful foul and sending off is a net win for your team. The nightmare scenario is breaking armour, getting whistled, and seeing the player recover from a stun, or get KO'd and wake up next drive, but that's balanced by the chance of a good solid murderous foul that isn't whistled at all.

    Knowing you've got a guy fouling all the time with near impunity also changes the calculations for your opponent somewhat. Do you want to send your gutter runners up all alone near their wrestle player, knowing he's got a friend who will stamp on their heads for shits and giggles as soon as they're down? How about that piling on you're thinking of doing? Sure you want to leave your killer player lying around like that?

  13. #6153
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    What I like about SG is that it almost favours the casual unassisted foul. The more assists you add the less value you get out of the skill.

    If you need to roll a 9 to break armour then you have a 27.8% chance of an armour break, a 5.6% chance of a sending off (down from 16.7% without SG), and a 3.2% chance of a sending off while leaving the opposing player stunned (down from 9.7%).

  14. #6154
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    Quote Originally Posted by President Weasel View Post
    The nightmare scenario is breaking armour, getting whistled, and seeing the player recover from a stun, or get KO'd and wake up next drive, but that's balanced by the chance of a good solid murderous foul that isn't whistled at all.
    You can foul ineffectually with impunity. Those murderous fouls you want render Sneaky Git completely irrelevant. That is the crux; it is a skill you want neutralised or why are you making the foul in the first place? And of course once you achieve anything you are back to the standard position of being far more likely to remove your own player from the match than the opponent... Piling On players want to be fouled, especially those with Jump Up. In CRP the odds are heavily stacked in favour of being stomped.

    For teams with 40k linemen who lack agility access Sneaky Git is a poor choice. For 10k more you get the two rookies who actually do that job better. They are just as (in)effective at fouling and just as likely to get sent off on a foul that achieves anything. Difference is the two rookies can keep going next drive.

    Stupid foul nerf.

  15. #6155
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraster View Post

    Stupid foul nerf.
    But one doesn't foul because of reason, but rather for the style and the irrational fear that it brings to your opponent! (your crappy 40K lineman all of a sudden will become target #1 while your actually good guys can breathe a sigh of relief)

  16. #6156
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    In our earlier debate (I think it was) Alistair Hutton that made the point that he doesn't foul because it leads to him losing position on his players. And that's exactly the point - without sneaky git the only good foul is a gang foul, because for a solo foul the chance of losing a player is greater than or equal to the chance of removing a player due to a KO or better.

    Sneaky git reverses this - you don't need to gang foul in order to foul effectively, and so you don't need to sacrifice position to do so. It essentially opens up fouling as an option every turn.

    I would actually say that, given that 40k linemen are often slow (eg zombies, flings) then gang fouling is likely to be more of an issue as it makes it harder to get back into position. So SG is better.
    Last edited by Everblue; 16-07-2012 at 03:35 PM. Reason: clarity

  17. #6157
    Network Hub JayTee's Avatar
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    You can foul ineffectually with impunity. Those murderous fouls you want render Sneaky Git completely irrelevant. That is the crux; it is a skill you want neutralised or why are you making the foul in the first place? And of course once you achieve anything you are back to the standard position of being far more likely to remove your own player from the match than the opponent... Piling On players want to be fouled, especially those with Jump Up. In CRP the odds are heavily stacked in favour of being stomped.

    For teams with 40k linemen who lack agility access Sneaky Git is a poor choice. For 10k more you get the two rookies who actually do that job better. They are just as (in)effective at fouling and just as likely to get sent off on a foul that achieves anything. Difference is the two rookies can keep going next drive
    And successfully passing the ball makes Pass completely irrelevant, and not rolling a 1 makes Safe Throw completely irrelevant, and succeeding a Dodge makes Dodge irrelevant, and so forth. There are plenty of skills in Blood Bowl that are there to mitigate bad effects (Safe Throw is fairly similar to Sneaky Git in that it stops a Turnover on a fail), Sneaky Git just happens to be the one that is standout obvious that if you're doing fouling "correctly" then you never need it.

    Thing is though I generally don't want to foul "correctly". The goal of a Khemri team is to hit the opponent until he's not got enough players standing or on the field to stop the slow cage from shambling forward. There are nuances to the tactics, but pretty much 'hit them till they stop moving' is about it. Part of this is winning the player numbers battle, and having Sneaky Git means I can chuck what is effectively a 'spare' Skeleton into the mix and foul repeatedly anything that looks tasty on the floor without worrying too much if he gets sent off. Also, it's a >50% chance with DP to get the opponent off the field. I'll take that when it's getting a Wrestle/Strip Ball/Leap/Sidestep Wardancer off in exchange for what is effectively an MV5 TZ with arms.

    While having 2 level 1 Skeletons may be 'optimal' as that's two bodies and not one, I can count the number of times I've had less than 11 players on the field at the beginning of a drive on one hand. I also really don't need another bloody bench-Skeleton sucking up MVPs, where all 4 of my recent MVPs have landed on those damned things rather than where I need it which is that useless Blitz-Ra who's 0SPPs from 8 games. Adding more MVP-suckers to the lineup would just result in much anger.

    EDIT: Forgot to add. Sneaky Git makes fouling fun because it mostly gets rid of the downside of fouling. Anything that adds fun to the game is a good thing. I wouldn't be playing Khemri if I was purely here to min/max :p
    Last edited by JayTee; 16-07-2012 at 04:11 PM.

  18. #6158
    I fired the DP Skelton off of my pub khemri team. Without fail, he would get sent off after his first foul. Having him there only encouraged me to foul players, which usually resulted in a stun for them and -1 player for me. I've played games where I've been fouled 13-14 times, yet they only have a player or two sent off. I want to know the secret of the RNG gods

  19. #6159
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    Returning by popular demand
    *demand may be fictional


    Da Blu Moonz (Orcs, Dentharial) VS Cheese it!!!! (Skaven, Gorm)

    The skaven team chose to receive
    The greenskins held to the belief
    That a punch to the head
    Would make them all dead
    And they’d have no chance to deceive

    But the ratmen were just way too fast
    And before even three turns had passed
    The skaven had scored!
    The greenskins were bored,
    And decided they couldn’t be arsed

    The orcs barely bothered to fight
    And though skaven armour is light,
    The worst that they got
    Were KOs (quite a lot),
    One dead rat was healed alright.

    The orckin continued to be kind,
    But the ratmen were still in a bind
    Despite cages galore
    The ball fell to the floor
    But the match ended a 2-1 grind!

    Final Score: Da Blu Moonz 2 - 1 Cheese it!!!!!

    There's a few plays that I couldn't fit neatly into rhyme. The end of the first half was tense, as Gorm had done a good job of slowing the cage down to the point that I'd only be able to run it in (without taking a ludicrous number of GFIs or leaving my carrier in the open) on the final turn. And he then managed to knock the ball carrier down, pick up the ball, and attempt a pass downfield that fortunately failed (admittedly due to being in 2 or 3 tackle zones).
    I was then able to beat him down for his audacity by crowd surfing the Gutter Runner who had attempted the pass, and was rewarded with a death! Who was then promptly healed by the apothecary.

    This was my one and only injury in the entire damn match, although the KOs kept mounting up to the point I definitely had a numbers advantage. The second half was a really long, slow grind up the pitch, damply shoving rats to one side and hemming them against the sidelines with tackle zones, without actually doing any damage at any point.

    Still a win is a win! And the boyz tell me that actually it was a carefully considered tactical decision to leave Gorm's team intact to make sure the elves don't rack up any points against him.

  20. #6160
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapouille View Post
    But one doesn't foul because of reason, but rather for the style and the irrational fear that it brings to your opponent! (your crappy 40K lineman all of a sudden will become target #1 while your actually good guys can breathe a sigh of relief)
    exactly, sneaky git makes him a crappy 70TV lineman who gobbled up a double, SG+DP makes him a crappy 90TV player... You'd be better off with 2 crappy 40TV players surely?
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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