View Poll Results: What should the new look divisions look like?

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  • No change! I fear change!

    12 29.27%
  • Triplets! I love triplets!

    9 21.95%
  • GC's lovely 1-2-quad based tier system. It's clearly the best!

    20 48.78%
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  1. #1461
    Lesser Hivemind Node NieA7's Avatar
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    I hardly ever get Pro to be honest, not for the first four or five skills at least. A skill I'm not going to use on most turns and that only has a 50/50 chance of letting me retry something else (rather than being an action itself) feels like a bad deal, doubly so when it stops me using a team reroll - though loner could do that it's only got the same chance of stopping me as Pro has of succeeding. I'd rather get something like block, dodge, tackle, jump up or side step.

    I've yet to find a good, reliable role for aggressive big guys, they tend to act like turnover generators. Generally I prefer the more passive types like the Beast of Nurgle.

  2. #1462
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Same here, but the Minotaur is my exception to the Pro rule. If nothing else Pro halves the chance of Loner costing you a TRR, which makes it something to consider for all big guys... but on all except the blitzing Minotaur, Block is just more important.

  3. #1463
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Yeh big guys can end up a big waste of TV. Though I do really love my Krox, prehensile tail is very nice. I actually think if I got doubles I might take tackle over block to really piss off all the agility teams.

  4. #1464
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    Same here, but the Minotaur is my exception to the Pro rule. If nothing else Pro halves the chance of Loner costing you a TRR, which makes it something to consider for all big guys... but on all except the blitzing Minotaur, Block is just more important.
    I thought that especially in this case (Wild Animal & sustained tackle zone) you would just skip the re-roll. Or did you mean RR for Skulls & Both down? In this case Block would be better I think.

    Since Loner increases the risk of failing an action in the first place I would try to limit the active use of the Minotaur to a minimum and increase its reliability with other skills (which are sparse enough as is).

    Edit: Then again, I guess it depends on how you use your Minotaur most of the time. I would prefer him to be at the LoS with Guard and Tentacles which won't help much when blitzing. Frenzy increases the chances for Both Down dramatically though.
    Last edited by Squiz; 23-09-2011 at 08:09 AM.

  5. #1465
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LowKey's Avatar
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    the problem with leaving a big guy on the LOS is that he will just be tied up with cheap linesmen, I like to get break tackle asap to stop that but in general id prefer to put him on the flanks and try and tie up some important players

  6. #1466
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    you get 4 STR4 high armour chaos mans - black orcs with better agility. They're supposed to be on the LOS.
    Then you get a player who is specialised for hurting enemy players. He has frenzy and mighty blow and horns right out the box. He's supposed to be hurting enemy players.

    That's not to say you shouldn't have a tackle/wrestle beast man for each side of the pitch, or a block, mighty blow, claw, piling on beastman for each side of the pitch. Those 4 players are also excellent uses for your one blitz. But the mino is for injuring whoever was dumb enough to get on the pitch with you.

  7. #1467
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowKey View Post
    the problem with leaving a big guy on the LOS is that he will just be tied up with cheap linesmen, I like to get break tackle asap to stop that but in general id prefer to put him on the flanks and try and tie up some important players
    Yeah, but you can punch him free with your other LoSers, no?

  8. #1468
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LowKey's Avatar
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    sure, but there's always the chance they wont go down

  9. #1469
    Network Hub alh_p's Avatar
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    wow, Mino's are always such a controversy. Personaly, I don't think there's much I can add to Coach's analysis of minos: you have two options to dealing with wild animal -either make sure the mino can block every turn or blitz every turn. Ergo juggernaut blitzer or tentacle roadblock (who seeks to keep players near him with tentacles to block every turn). PW makes a strong case for the blitzer and ultimately it depends on what you do with the rest of the team too that matters.

    To my mind, a blitzer mino leaves more of a hole in my team when he DOES fail his wild animal (and who is going to tempt nuffle?). Tentacles at least mitigate that risk by retaining tackle zones and tieing players down -which is the more accessible tactical alternative to surgicaly/brutaly removing them with horns.

    Wild animal and loner gobble RRs -hence pro, but frankly, for me this is about playing with a mino from 0 SPP, not lvl 4 and a couple of doubles. The first game i had with my shiny new mino a few seasons ago was disastrous. I burned through my RRs with failed WA rolls within 4 turns and achieved nothing for it. Yes you get crap luck, and then crapper luck, and then nuffle squats and strains over you, but unless you are playing to just demolish the opposition then I find a more reliable option always preferable.

    Hence tentacles first. TBH, I'd be quite happy to take juggernaut next because I do like some flexiblility/threat but again -i've got to get the SPP first!

  10. #1470
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    All this debate and no one has pointed out Chaos are better off without a cow? Guess I better then :) Seriously the cow is a waste of space outside a ten game window between around 5-15 games in a league setting. Once you've got your warriors fully covered with Block and Guard you don't need the muscle and the blitzing will be done exclusively by your killer build beasts.

    For the record I'm totally against the blitzing mino. The blitz is generally the pivotal moment in a turn so throwing away 16% of them to a negatrait just doesn't make sense. It is one reason I never run with a Rat Ogre on Skaven teams unless I'm well behind on development and don't have access to Glart and/or Fezglitch. Wild animals need to blitz nearly all the time, but they are all sub-optimal. Gutters are the best blitzers in the game bar none, Beasts run them pretty close and Norse teams need to be blitzing with their Zerks and Ulfs.

  11. #1471
    Network Hub alh_p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraster View Post
    The blitz is generally the pivotal moment in a turn so throwing away 16% of them to a negatrait just doesn't make sense.
    QFT. Especially as I have a ST4+block Beastman :D

  12. #1472
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alh_p View Post
    wow, Mino's are always such a controversy. Personaly, I don't think there's much I can add to Coach's analysis of minos: you have two options to dealing with wild animal -either make sure the mino can block every turn or blitz every turn. Ergo juggernaut blitzer or tentacle roadblock (who seeks to keep players near him with tentacles to block every turn). PW makes a strong case for the blitzer and ultimately it depends on what you do with the rest of the team too that matters.

    To my mind, a blitzer mino leaves more of a hole in my team when he DOES fail his wild animal (and who is going to tempt nuffle?). Tentacles at least mitigate that risk by retaining tackle zones and tieing players down -which is the more accessible tactical alternative to surgicaly/brutaly removing them with horns.

    Wild animal and loner gobble RRs -hence pro, but frankly, for me this is about playing with a mino from 0 SPP, not lvl 4 and a couple of doubles. The first game i had with my shiny new mino a few seasons ago was disastrous. I burned through my RRs with failed WA rolls within 4 turns and achieved nothing for it. Yes you get crap luck, and then crapper luck, and then nuffle squats and strains over you, but unless you are playing to just demolish the opposition then I find a more reliable option always preferable.

    Hence tentacles first. TBH, I'd be quite happy to take juggernaut next because I do like some flexiblility/threat but again -i've got to get the SPP first!
    If you wanted to keep your options open, perhaps take Claw first. It fits into both the static and blitzing Minotaur skillset and it speeds up your injury rate (and SPP gain) more than Tentacle. :)

    One reason I prefer blitzing Mino is it allows you to throw more blocks with your Minotaur, throughout a game, on average. Since a Mino on the LoS will get knocked down and is less likely to get up unless you spend the blitz with them anyway. A Mino that is locked into a melee can just hit somebody, or he can still use blitz to strike and/or find a new more dangerous place to be in the next turn.

    Point is, your blitzing Minotaur is on his feet a lot more often and hitting things a lot more often. Doesn't that make him more reliable, but in a different way?

    (That's not to say you have to use the Mino in every situation. If the blitz is pivotal I would probably use a Beastman instead. But having the option to use your Minotaur at other times is excellent.)

    As for controversy, I think this debate is just indicative of the nature of the Chaos team. For a group with such ostensibly simple tactics - "Hit them, repeat" - there are so many different ways you can go about it. That's a big part of their appeal for me... every Chaos team contains a little surprise. :)



    Edited to add the quote as more replies appeared while I was slowly typing.
    Last edited by Screwie; 23-09-2011 at 11:20 AM.

  13. #1473
    Network Hub alh_p's Avatar
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    I wouldn't put the Mino on the LoS unless receiving and wanting to take route 1, up the centre. A roadblock mino is more useful on the flank, in defence denying a 3rd of the pitch to the opposition (if only by intimidation) or in attack flanking the cage melee or tieing up 2+ enemies. Also, on the LoS you can't blitz...

  14. #1474
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Oops sorry, I was using LoS as shorthand incorrectly there. I really meant any kind of situation where the Mino starts its turn in a TZ.

  15. #1475
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    Hmm, there's a point Zoraster. That said, regardless of the rest of your team the cow starts with St5, with tentacles it will continue to fill a role once your other players fill the blitzing role. Maybe I should reconsider and head down the road block route.

  16. #1476
    Network Hub alh_p's Avatar
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    I htink I should rename my mino Polemic.

  17. #1477
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    So, how long until the new season starts? The sheet tells me that some games are overdue and the weekend is near (oh so near) which would be a great chance to get some first games done.

  18. #1478
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    Not a chance of getting your first game in this weekend; next weekend is nearer to the mark, especially for us dregs in the bottom divisions :) By the looks of it Groovy hasn’t had time to sort out the divisions yet, but assuming he does that pretty quickly you’ll be looking at something like Wednesday for final call on the inevitable coach or three who fails to apply. Allowing for a final reshuffle you’re probably looking at this sort of time next week before all divisions are good to go.

  19. #1479
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraster View Post
    All this debate and no one has pointed out Chaos are better off without a cow? Guess I better then :) Seriously the cow is a waste of space outside a ten game window between around 5-15 games in a league setting. Once you've got your warriors fully covered with Block and Guard you don't need the muscle and the blitzing will be done exclusively by your killer build beasts.

    For the record I'm totally against the blitzing mino. The blitz is generally the pivotal moment in a turn so throwing away 16% of them to a negatrait just doesn't make sense. It is one reason I never run with a Rat Ogre on Skaven teams unless I'm well behind on development and don't have access to Glart and/or Fezglitch. Wild animals need to blitz nearly all the time, but they are all sub-optimal. Gutters are the best blitzers in the game bar none, Beasts run them pretty close and Norse teams need to be blitzing with their Zerks and Ulfs.

    You make a compelling point - but my chaos team in the league are 6 games in, and I love my cow.
    And Ahl makes a compelling point, and I am not saying he's wrong. Personally though, I like to blitz.

  20. #1480
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoraster View Post
    Not a chance of getting your first game in this weekend; next weekend is nearer to the mark, especially for us dregs in the bottom divisions :) By the looks of it Groovy hasn’t had time to sort out the divisions yet, but assuming he does that pretty quickly you’ll be looking at something like Wednesday for final call on the inevitable coach or three who fails to apply. Allowing for a final reshuffle you’re probably looking at this sort of time next week before all divisions are good to go.
    Well, damn. That means one week less for me before I leave on holidays. Is it allowed to play more than one of your games in one week?

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