RPS Blood Bowl League - The many, many Divisions of Death!

[desvergeh]

3-0 to the Red Skull Reavers, but that's a very flattering scoreline considering the way I and Desvergeh played; I suspect that stat analysis program would show Desvergeh had a nasty case of the ones this evening.

To be fair I played pretty poorly. Not much luck on the dice, but you also had very poor block rolls. If you had been rolling better I would have been in serious trouble.

Thinking of switching teams next season. I'm just not getting the hang of necros.

Against a bashy team I can't outbash, and I do not have speed to keep my distance or the skills to pass.

Against an agility I simply don't have enough power to put them down, and over half my team just cannot keep pace.

Don't get me wrong, have undoubtedly learnt a lot, but it just always feels like I am just trying to keep up with whatever team I play against.

It also hasn't helped that it seems to somehow be my zombies skilling up. Yet again MVP went to a zombie!

Time to try something else I think, will take a look to see what is free.


Thanks for the game President, a deserved win!

[ChainsawHands]

There is no such thing as TV bloat, that is the mindset of players who try to suck the fun out of the game. There is only players getting better.

That's only true if you assume that everyone shares your definition of fun, which presumably involves a player-centric, RPGish view of your team where a player having more levels makes him better. An equally valid view would be a team-centric one in which case a player levelling is only "getting better" if his doing so makes the team better, which involves a cost/benefit analysis of the TV gain versus the skill, and can indeed encompass TV bloat as a valid concept. Indeed, from the perspective of what will make your team most efficient at winning matches, you could make a strong case that TV bloat is always real, some players just (perfectly validly) choose to disregard it in favour of what they consider a more enjoyable way of playing.

tl;dr: fun is subjective, TV bloat is real.

Or, as this is an internet forum: lol you have fun levelling up your little mans, some of us want to play BB properly, n00b.

[Nullkigan]

That's only true if you assume that everyone shares your definition of fun, which presumably involves a player-centric, RPGish view of your team where a player having more levels makes him better. An equally valid view would be a team-centric one in which case a player levelling is only "getting better" if his doing so makes the team better, which involves a cost/benefit analysis of the TV gain versus the skill, and can indeed encompass TV bloat as a valid concept.

Or, as this is an internet forum: lol you have fun levelling up your little mans, some of us want to play BB properly, n00b.

Hey, I purposefully avoided replying because it leads down that dark path. I was complaining mostly because that was a new lino and my Witch Elves are still level 1 after five games! (Also, when you play against a machine like Duffin you need every advantage you can get)

[ChainsawHands]

I just like to wind Al up. (This is true for many values of "Al").

BUY FROZEN SYNAPSE, AL!

[duff]

chainsawhands - Most diplomatic answer of the week.

nulkigan - it wasn't that bad of a game. In the second half you managed to dispossess me once and because of my idiocy you could have got a second block on him with a 5+ (ish) dodge.

TV bloat is definitely a factor I consider. I'd say I'm aware of it and try and get my SPP where I want it (for example Lizardmen are a team where you will very quickly become aware of TV bloat). But I wouldn't go so far as to say a level 2 lineman is tv bloat, especially given how good elf linemen are. A concern I have with my delfs is the worth of having 1 or 2 witch elfs. Yes they are good but incredibly fragile and expensive, I would say having two unlevelled witch elfs is more of a tv bloat than anything on your team, Nullkigan.

[Nullkigan]

I'm not actually THAT concerned by bloat or my poor performance, I'm planning on getting an assassin eventually :)

Besides, I like having the Witch Elves to scare people away from the sidelines. It Also lets me free up blitzers for the centre, and a sidestep Blitzer with Witch Elf support on each flank is pretty terrifying for anyone without grab/Stand Firm.

[ntw]

That's not what the spreadsheet says...

He's right - you might want to check the sheet PW & Des

[Tom OBedlam]

I love levelling up my linesmen. A scrimmidge line covered in block/guard humans is a beautiful sight. Especially with two MB/guard blitzers nearby.

[desvergeh]

That's not what the spreadsheet says...

LOL so PW can play a good game, but spreadsheets are a challenge!

[President Weasel]

That was a tad special of me. Fixed now.

[President Weasel]

That's an interesting perspective on the Necros, Des, because I was thinking the exact opposite - that your team had more speed and agility than mine in the wolves and ghouls, and that your roadblock golems and your cheap, disposable (but not completely fragile, at AV8) skeletons let you screen your runners quite effectively.
Turn your wolves into killers (tackle to make sure you slaughter elfy teams, block, mighty blow, and maybe piling on for the sheer joy of elbow dropping someone's star player and sending them to the casualty box), and then you should be able to do enough damage to the opposition that they can't just bash you off the pitch.
You don't actually need to be able to outpace the enemy's faster players with your entire team - as long as you can get a couple of players to the runner you should be golden.

They're not as ridiculously specialised as the lizards (big guys with no agility and agile guys with no big) but they're a generalist team with decent specialists (if that makes any sense?). I wouldn't suggest trying a passing game unless you get +agi on a ghoul though.

[desvergeh]

I actually find that I can usually mount a decent defence, last night was a bit of an exception.

The trouble I find is offence.

I generally end up closed in by the opponents defence. I can then either try to bash my way out (and find I am not bashy enough), or try to dodge out (and find I don't have the agility). As a result I always find myself pushed into risky plays, which pretty much never pan out.

I also think the necros punish inexperienced coaches. Stupid mistakes can get one of your positionals knocked out of the game, which can prove devastating.

I'm sure Necros can be a good team in the right hands. I'm just thinking another team might be a slightly less steep learning curve.

[President Weasel]

I noticed you seemed to tend to form a many-player cage, like
x x
xox
xxx

where x are your players and 0 is the ball. That might explain your getting closed in - make a cage with just the corners, and you could dedicate those other three guys to helping your team screen off some space or being a handoff option and drawing away some of my players to cover.

[Rakysh]

Also means you can't have your ball carrier pushed out of the cage. There a block on the bottom middle x could push the o into the open.

[Alini]

Unless you're fighting elves, in which case they will roll into you tackle zones, blitz your ball carrier, grab the ball and then dash out or pass it.

[NieA7]

I've not had huge success with mine, but generally I think they're a solid side. Defense is easier with them than offense (the Flesh Golem's make wonderful road blocks while the wolves hunt down anything juicy), certainly I've found it difficult to score in a number of games.

I'm not absolutely convinced that Necros are a good caging team, I think they're probably better at applying threat and moving quickly - rather than run a cage down the pitch (difficult with slow/strong and fast/feeble players) try to set up a central cage to defend the ball while the wolves and wights push down each side of the pitch. The wolves only need two turns to comfortably run the ball in, so long as you stay within hand-off distance of the ball carrier they're both threats that need covering in addition to shutting down the cage.

The other option is hugging the edges of the pitch - Necro's excel at this thanks to frenzy on the wolves and stand firm on the golems. I do this more often than I should probably, and it's no good if you need to run down the clock (after 3 or 4 turns you'll almost certainly be fully blocked in), but it can be brutally effective against slower teams.

[desvergeh]

I generally start with a central cage, then transition that into a faster running play when the opportunity presents. The trouble is getting that opportunity.

And if you go for a run and get bogged down again it is problematic due to the differing speeds of the team. If I end up stuck in the opposing end of the pitch I find it really difficult to get myself out of that position.

[NieA7]

True, if you've got both wolves in the other end you've gotta make sure you can hang on to the ball otherwise you'll almost certainly concede a TD. I've had more success setting up on one side rather than ploughing through the middle, but yeah, it's tricky. If it works it's almost impossible to stop, but what determines how well or not is works is how the other guy manages space, which is largely out of your hands.

Course, the other thing is that being good on defense often opens up the possibility of a defensive TD.

[Alistair Hutton]

That's only true if you assume that everyone shares your definition of fun

Which is the correct definition of fun.

which presumably involves a player-centric, RPGish view of your team where a player having more levels makes him better.

Yes, having lots of mans is fun. Having lots of mans that do more stuff is clearly better fun.

An equally valid view

Given that it is a view in opposition to my own I see yo have made an incorrect and exceedingly faulty premise.

would be a team-centric one in which case a player levelling is only "getting better" if his doing so makes the team better,

You're not improving your argument any here.

which involves a cost/benefit analysis of the TV gain versus the skill, and can indeed encompass TV bloat as a valid concept. Indeed, from the perspective of what will make your team most efficient at winning matches, you could make a strong case that TV bloat is always real, some players just (perfectly validly) choose to disregard it in favour of what they consider a more enjoyable way of playing.

Translation: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

tl;dr: fun is subjective, TV bloat is real.

You clearly don't understand the concept of BadWrongFun.

Or, as this is an internet forum: lol you have fun levelling up your little mans, some of us want to play BB properly, n00b.

This is pretty much the only part of your argument that works. Or it would do if you weren't such a damn n00b. Learn 2 PLaY.

[Alistair Hutton]

I generally start with a central cage, then transition that into a faster running play when the opportunity presents. The trouble is getting that opportunity.

I'd recommend a cage strongly positioned on one side of the pitch rather than centrally placed. By focusing on one side this has the tendency of making opponents over commit on that side opening up the other half of the field. I think quite a lot of coaches make the mistake of thinking of Necros as a "slow" team and would get caught out by a Wight and Wolf making a break across field with your cheap zombies happily sacrificing themselves to tie up the opposition.