That's true, Guard is great. It just doesn't improve my positional game.
Edit: Thinking of it, it's not just positional play. It's also a lack in awareness of skills on the field and how to deal with them. And not being able to score...
No change! I fear change!
Triplets! I love triplets!
GC's lovely 1-2-quad based tier system. It's clearly the best!
That's true, Guard is great. It just doesn't improve my positional game.
Edit: Thinking of it, it's not just positional play. It's also a lack in awareness of skills on the field and how to deal with them. And not being able to score...
You did answer helio's poll on ethics rather succinctly with that T16 foul ;)Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic
Xenny's Berserkers 1 - 1 Doomdark's Revenge in Division J. Could I get it adminned please as I am going to buy a lovely big minotaur. Thank you.
That's a really, really big deal. I feel that I've got a lot to learn too, especially when it comes to positioning, but when I mastered that aspect, I felt my game go up a level or two just like that. Before the beginning of a match, I always check out all the opposing player's skills and make sure that I'm thoroughly aware of my own, and then keep checking out where all the skills are all the time. I think it makes even more difference than solid positioning tbh.
Which skills in particular cause you trouble? This is the sort of thing the friendly people here will jump to offer their own advice on :)
The first was frenzy - He positioned his guys within two squares of the sidelines on kickoff, allowing for an easy turn 1 surf. I think frenzy takes a while to get used to - you have to be burned by it a few times before taking proper precautions.
I am still being burned by this particular problem - I keep forgetting to move people myself when I use a team default to just quickly lay players out on the pitch during setup.
Well, I don't use the normal layouts... nor do I have a friggen clue as to what I am doing when I position my guys at kickoff. I would love to see a handy guide as to what to do, because I'm more or less just putting people in random spots.
...was that effective at all or did you ask wtf I was doing ;)
@Cyberpunkdreams, Screwie: That's pretty much how I do things as well. I check my opponent's roster and the position of his skills on the field. I think it has more to do with the multitude of different situations that arise during a match and how skills change those. The best example would be a scrum on the sidelines or a brawl along the line of scrimmage. To me it appears almost like a mathematical problem to figure out how to best get assists and distribute tackle zones on the opponent's team, to foresee where the game will go (i.e. where the ball moves) and how react to that.
Concerning Frenzy: Again, I know how that skill works and I know that I shouldn't set my guys up near the widezones. I really have no idea why those players where there.
If there is something I had to critizise about your play I would say it was the kick-off phase / your setup. You put your Big Guy on the Line of Scrimmage on defense, which is asking for a beating (which he got). And maybe you could have fouled more. I think that Norse profit from the numerical advantage on the field more than other teams. But I guess you did just fine.
Edit: On positioning in general: I believe you can't really master positional play that easy. For that you have to factor in a lot of things, like enemy position, general playstyle, odds of blocks, distances between players, etc. . My positional play has improved over time, at least a bit, especially while playing a Human team in the Challenge League. The Orcs give me huge trouble though since I can't pull of game saving actions as easy with them.
Editedit: Chad, about that foul: The discussion about T16 fouls has of course been had somewhere else before (not between the two of us, but I posted my opinion in another thread already). It may not appear as ethical to kick someone during the last turn of the match (no SPPs, no direct advantage, etc.). A potential slowing of the progression of a key player of a team that I might be facing again in a couple of games was the main reason for that.
Last edited by squirrelfanatic; 09-07-2012 at 05:42 AM.
Welcome to my world ;)
When asked, he merely responded with a wry bleat followed by a swift kick to the testicles.- Rakysh
About being frenzied from the kick off, it's possible to block the sidelines while being safe from being frenzied - simply drop your player nearest the sidelines back one square.
Then he's protected by the piece diagonally ahead of him from being surfed on the first turn.
I personally don't like to block the sidelines though, especially against running teams. Let them overcommit to the sideline and then crush them against it. So long as you are strong in the centre, and have sufficient depth to your formation to react to your opponent's moves, you're fine.
The other option is to set two players in your sideline, side by side. This will present the Frenzy player only unfavourable blocks while still protecting the flank.
Generally thought what Everblue says is true - it's usually easier to leave the sides empty and squeeze the opposition against them. Low MA teams will benefit more by keeping their players in the centre field too as they can cover more of the pitch. Against very fast MA runners, I would consider setting a couple of players in the deep centre of your own half to help defend against them.
Read in Tooth and Claw (Necromantic - NieA7) - Kajers (Necromantic - me)
The first match of DIV C happened to be a Necro-off, and NieA7 started at 360 more TV: i bought a fresh Golem and induced a wizard and two babes.
The two teams are very similar: RiTaC has an advantage of skills, while the Kajers has some more stats up.
Kajers won the coin flip and decided to receive, while the referee let the clock run for a turn.
The kick was picked up by a ghoul and hastily caged by his teammates.
NieA7 covered heavily that flank, only to find the turn after it was only a screen and another cage formed in the opposite side.
He also almost managed to stop them, but two dodges of a ghoul secured the first TD with 3 turns left.
With no rerolls left, two KO's and good positioning of RiTaCs the Kajers only had the manpower to try a one dice block against the ball carrier, failed due to the ghoul tripping on a dodge.
Easy equalizer and the end of half time.
My KO's stood back up and kicked to the other side. Some punches and a failed wizard later, NieA7 stood on the half line with a loose cage, but with the strenght of the numbers.
The only way to stop him was getting a blitz on the ball carrier, ghoul vs ghoul. Having to do two dodges in tackle zones the blitz was risky, but audaces nuffle iuva and the ball changed hands.
A Werewolf and a Wight helped score the TD on turn 15.
NieA7 tried to score a 1 TTD, but made a mistake on the first blitz, so the final score was
Read in Tooth and Claw 1 - Kajers 2
Last thoughts:
- Nice game, NieA7 was a nice guy despite the lose
- Don't trust wizards
- If you put two Werewolves in adiacent squares, they seem to kiss
- Sidestep is EVIL
@Jiiiiim: I am at 9 unbeaten games in a row (16 games out of 17)... i'm coming for you :P
Interesting theories. I always, always cover the sides - I don't see why I should let a bunch of the opposition waltz into my territory without at least having to use their blitz. Also, if you don't cover the sides and they get a blitz roll they can just run past your lines and yoink the ball. Seems to happen to me every time I choose not to protect the sides, almost as though not doing that actually causes the kickoff dice to come up blitz.
Placing your mans diagonally does protect them from frenzying, as does making an 'edge player' with frenzy and either sidestep or stand firm (if I remember right, stand firm won't save you from frenzy if the player also has juggernaut)
I was actually talking about defending, but it's odd that not covering the sides can actually be an advantage when attacking as well. I find that it can encourage the opposition to overcommit to trying to grab the ball rather than maintain a strong centre, and all their players who ran round the side to pressure the ball can get caught badly out of position if you break through.
So I try to deliberately leave the sides open sometimes, hoping that my opponent will make a positioning error.
It's all theorycrafting mind. And yes, if there's a blitz you can be buggered.
Positioning is hard - the slower your team is , the more crucial it is to get it right. Which is why I've always done pretty badly with low MA teams - not enough opportunity for a last ditch 'save' when you realise you've stretched it too far. Humans are working for me at the moment because I have 4 ma7 blitzers and 3 ma 8 catchers - helps cover a lot of positioning errors during the game :-). Always keep a safety deep and unmarked - 2 or 3 against skaven or elves, especially if you are slow. Having used it a few times now as well, pass block is nice for a low MA team to counter agile teams, moving 3 squares towards the thrower/ catcher at the right moment can be a great help on occasion, and for some teams that's almost like an additional turn of movement...
Also (I don't do this often enough), it's sometimes worth leaving one flank open on defence, and then stick your mighty blow piling on most evil safety nearer that side (but not so close they can get marked). They can run through, but they're going to get hit by your meanest player. Let them make a choice, whilst bolstering your defences elsewhere ;-).
Benevolent dictator of the RPS Blood Bowl Divisions of Death - Join us!
Yeah, I am aware of that. St4 Ulfwerner make it a bit harder to get your players away from the sidelines though.
I probably struggled with my positioning so much because I had never faced Norse before. They are much quicker than the Orcs but do not lack Strength or Block, which is what I am used to when facing more agile teams. I failed to provide myself with free blocks through smart positioning and always got my defensive line ripped apart by Frenzy players. I'll punish myself by watching the replay tonight and try to spot my mistakes so that I might learn from them.
Another season in the abyss that is the lowest Tier it seems. I predict the Norse winning every match with me coming in second or third.
Don't worry though, a couple of seasons in the Norse will get ripped apart facing teams who have developed block and guard and who have been wearing armour all along. It's pretty lonely in a fur loincloth when you're facing a green tide of skilled-up orcs.
That's true. Right now, however, my Orcs are leveling up in the newbie Divisions and I am not sure how much sympathy that will net me in the long run. At least I just lack Block on one of my Black Orcs.
But it is a mathematical (perhaps statistical?) problem. The game is all about managing probabilities. How to do things the safest way and how to make things hard for your opponent. I like to think of the game as a mix of chess and dice poker.
That's a lesson that every coach must learn the hard way and you'll get burned as your Blood Bowl instincts develop. Don't blame yourself over that.Concerning Frenzy: Again, I know how that skill works and I know that I shouldn't set my guys up near the widezones. I really have no idea why those players where there.
Orcs are so slow that recovering from bad positioning is hard. In that regard skavens, for instance, are more newbie friendly team. High MA is forgiving so you can still try to get back into the game if your opponent is getting away. Their low AV also teaches a certain lesson about positioning but, thanks to their cheap players, it's also easy to get back in the saddle in case of injuries.Edit: On positioning in general: I believe you can't really master positional play that easy. For that you have to factor in a lot of things, like enemy position, general playstyle, odds of blocks, distances between players, etc. . My positional play has improved over time, at least a bit, especially while playing a Human team in the Challenge League. The Orcs give me huge trouble though since I can't pull of game saving actions as easy with them.
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