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  1. #1
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    Come back RTS games, I miss you :(

    Does anybody else miss the build a base grab some resources tank mulch kind of games that used to dominate RTS and PC gaming?

    We have a few games once in a while like Red Alert 3 (though it focused too much on kooky units) and SupCom2 (Still over shadowed by TA) and Starcraft 2 (Horrid fiddly math-based multiplayer though single player was a pleasant unit mulch) but the genre seems to have ground to have well, died.

    I love the Real Time Tactics games like Dawn of War 2, World In Conflict and Wargame: European Escalation and the nitty gritty detailed combat.

    But still, I miss just sitting back and watching a battle unfold after a little bit of base building and skirmishing. There's nothing quite watching your Mammoth tanks roll through an enemy base while ramming a fat slab of cake in your mouth and supping on a cup of tea. Real time tactics games generally require the use of both hands.

    Yes I know there's nothing stopping me going back and playing all the old C&C's, TA's, KKND's and Metal Fatigue's but I just wish the genre was carried on rather than left for dead.

    I can't even think of many true RTS games on the horizon.

    Yes there's Heart of the Swarm but I'm voting with my wallet on that one and will not be subscribing to the horrid blizzard login game again. There's nothing concrete about the new Generals and likely it's going to be another round of horrid preorder DLCs and such for EAware.

    The Free to Play End Of Nations looks okay but could prove to be a little grindy and it looks like there's a hard cap on the amount of units you can field. Gameplay wise, if anything, it looks like that Command & Conquer 4 game which apparently came out. And I have no memory of. And certainly didn't waste money on. Just like those AvP movies.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    I know what you mean. I'm still waiting for something to supplant Rise of Nations as "best RTS (in the traditional sense of the term) ever," and I'm increasingly convinced that, unfortunately, nothing's going to do so.
    Last edited by vinraith; 09-07-2012 at 07:15 PM.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    I also came here to post about Rise of Nations.

  4. #4
    Vector Jams O'Donnell's Avatar
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    I hadn't really considered this, but it does seem that the traditional RTS is now on the scrapheap of abandoned genres. This is sad.

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  6. #6
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    Generals was far and away the most balanced of all the C&C games. I hope Bioware don't screw it up.

  7. #7
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    We just had a comeback of traditional RTSs with Starcraft 2, I thought. Don't really get what's wrong with its multiplayer, unless you you think there's something fundamentally broken with competitive multiplayer games in general.
    RA3 was humourous, but also terribly shit, so it tanking is not unexpected. (/stealth pun)

    btw, Rise of Legends > Rise of Nations.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkt-zer0 View Post
    We just had a comeback of traditional RTSs with Starcraft 2, I thought.
    Then you thought wrong. Over half of missions in WoL are either on a timer or escorts, plus the tutorial, plus installation crawls... in the end there's literally about three missions in the entire game which can be played in the oldschool "turtle, tech, steamroll" style.

    I don't expect HotS to be any different in this regard.

    Also: Rise of Nations is anything but a traditional RTS. It was also garbage.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    in the end there's literally about three missions in the entire game which can be played in the oldschool "turtle, tech, steamroll" style.
    ...am I missing something here? If that's what old-school is supposed to mean, then just pop into skirmish mode against a sufficiently dumb AI, and play however you want. You can pick basically any RTS for this, doesn't even have to be SC2.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Then you thought wrong. Over half of missions in WoL are either on a timer or escorts, plus the tutorial, plus installation crawls... in the end there's literally about three missions in the entire game which can be played in the oldschool "turtle, tech, steamroll" style.
    Yeah, SC2 was missing five missions where it just goes "Hey, you know those last three levels. where you just learned how to use this set of units? Well put it all together and beat these guys."

    Would have been trivial to implement, but actually made it so the campaign progression actually seemed to have a point. It's not as simple as 'just do a skirmish' as there are single-player units that aren't in MP/skirmish, or act differently, and part of the fun of the campaign is getting to upgrade units and research new abilities. The game seemed so busy telling me about a new toy every mission it never gave me chance to play.

    Majesty 2 has been scratching my RTS campaign itch recently. It's not the same but it kinda works. Trying to get into Universe at War: Earth Assault but it's not quite working for me. It's amazing how so many genres have got more story-based over the past decades, but what RTSs we get are now less so.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
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    I heard someone recently made a flash-based homage to that best of RTS subgenres. >_>

    I pretty much agree, I played a ton of those and quite miss them. Specifically ones with swords! (Setting is important enough to me that I'd be very excited for AoE 4 or WarCraft 4, but I barely gave SC2 a glance).

    I still have plenty of the old ones I haven't played (Rise of Legends for example) but I thought WarCraft 3 was going to be indicative of a new wave of "classic RTS + interesting hero units with inventories" type of games. Instead, it seemed to be the harbinger of the *second* part of that blend near-utterly eclipsing the first part.
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  12. #12
    Lesser Hivemind Node TillEulenspiegel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berzee View Post
    but I thought WarCraft 3 was going to be indicative of a new wave of "classic RTS + interesting hero units with inventories" type of games.
    Me too. I got all excited about the genre that was briefly known as RPS (role-playing strategy), but it wasn't to be.

    Warlords Battlecry actually did RTS + heroes earlier and better than WC3, though I'd hesitate to recommend it, because it's otherwise a fairly dull cookie-cutter RTS.

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus jnx's Avatar
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    I'm sure we all know what the problem is. Starcraft 2 is the only RTS that has sold even moderately well in the past years. RTS without highly competitive appeal is terribly niche these days.
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  14. #14
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    RTS just doesn't do it for me. Back in the day I played the heck out of Dune 2, but that game was all I needed to have my fill of the genre. I've tried a whole bunch of them since, from Warcraft to Age of Empires Online and many in between, but my unfortunate conclusion every time is that I'm just too slow in the head to be any good at this genre.

  15. #15
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    I suppose the genre simply failed to evolve. If you have played one RTS campaign, you have pretty much played them all. MOBAs and Tower Defense games are pretty much condensed mutations of the RTS, removing many of the rigid traditions.
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  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    I suppose the genre simply failed to evolve. If you have played one RTS campaign, you have pretty much played them all. MOBAs and Tower Defense games are pretty much condensed mutations of the RTS, removing many of the rigid traditions.
    I hate it when people say CoH and whatever else innovated the genre and CnC or Starcraft are dated bullshit.
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  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
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    Tower defense games, perhaps some of them. MOBAs, not so much I'd think. Too much micro involved, as well as math and theorycrafting about what is the beast gear for this or that hero .

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rauten View Post
    Too much micro involved, as well as math and theorycrafting about what is the beast gear for this or that hero .
    You just described every Blizzard game.

    I've learned to look to Paradox for my gaming needs lately. Especially strategy related things. Sadly, they don't have a good ol' pre-EA CnC clone either.

    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    Dark Reign was the last traditional RTS I enjoyed.
    Earth 2150, Warzone 2100. What happened to all those games? Maybe we can look at Earth 2160 as a game that killed that subgenre, by letting Blizzard style micro invade the game. Heroes with inventory management added while the interesting stuff was removed.
    Last edited by Batolemaeus; 09-07-2012 at 08:23 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Swayze View Post
    We have a few games once in a while like Red Alert 3... and SupCom2... and Starcraft 2... but the genre seems to have ground to have well, died.
    This so much. I just can't understand why people begrudge us having Starcraft 2 when there is literally no other RTS game being released that is like it today. I've tried to enjoy Dawn of War 2, but it just feels incredibly limiting, as well as having too many elements of luck that have no place in a competitive game, particularly 1v1.

    I think RUSE offered a nice middle ground that would be nice to see expanded upon (how was Wargame?) and I'm looking forward to Company of Heroes 2, but I would love to see a more traditional RTS game made again, like another Rise of Nations (preferred,) or Age of Empires (marginally more likely.)

    As others have said, I really do not like the reliance on hero units that was popularised by Warcraft 3. Hopefully that kind of thing can stay in the MOBA genre, where it seems a better fit.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Dark Reign was the last traditional RTS I enjoyed. I always wanted this genre to move into more tactical and less 'epic' direction. Like Ground Control or Mechcommander. It never did, Massive is working on Far Cry 3 now. So, I don't really feel sad about it all being dead. Turned out I wasn't ever a big fan of an RTS genre, I just always had a PC that was 2 years behind progress.

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