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  1. #21
    Lesser Hivemind Node Leopig's Avatar
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    looks a lot like free to play Black Prophecy

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    I can't have fun with something that actively offends my intelligence. Suspension of disbelief is a no man's land between realism and nonsense, not a nation of its own.
    In fiction, realism only matters within the context of the fictional world. This is a fictional world in which there are spaceships that turn into robots. So the spaceships turn into robots. Enough said.

    I personally only have trouble when the "unrealistic" elements are inserted in 4th wall breaking ways or ways that hurt play. Realism is a good default only in those situations where familiarity helps the player--you want to do Newtonian movement systems in space? Most people aren't used to space flight and would have trouble wrapping their heads around it so you better have a particular reason for doing it. It shouldn't be the default.

    If this really actively offends your intelligence ... color me surprised. My astronomy professor's favorite movie is Contact. Our school's particle physicist is a huge star wars geek. I watch crappy sci-fi flicks all the time. I'm not used to people thinking fantasy in fiction is a bad thing because it's unintelligent. It's fine if you don't like fantasy. But if you think all fantasy that flies in the face of reality is inherently unintelligent you should probably look a little more closely at the concepts of both intelligence and fantasy.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 14-07-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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  3. #23
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    I get where Mohorovicic is coming from - my ideal space fighters (Freespace, Starlancer, Freelancer (to a point)) don't feature transforming mechs, keep that shit in your anime nonsense (Macross?).

    I wanna know what the point is of a vehicle that transforms during a battle - a fighter should just as easily be able to dodge fire as a humanoid form, if not better (slender profile, give it a rear turret to shoot down missiles, whatever)

    Then again, it's been way too long since we had a good space fighter game (in space) - if a transforming anime-import is the price I have to pay to see it in my Steam library, I won't complain.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spengbab View Post
    I get where Mohorovicic is coming from - my ideal space fighters (Freespace, Starlancer, Freelancer (to a point)) don't feature transforming mechs, keep that shit in your anime nonsense (Macross?).

    I wanna know what the point is of a vehicle that transforms during a battle - a fighter should just as easily be able to dodge fire as a humanoid form, if not better (slender profile, give it a rear turret to shoot down missiles, whatever)

    Then again, it's been way too long since we had a good space fighter game (in space) - if a transforming anime-import is the price I have to pay to see it in my Steam library, I won't complain.
    Don't hate on anime.

    Also, humanoid craft have arms and legs for doing things like swinging giant space swords and roundhouse kicking spaceships.

    If you don't think that is awesome you suck.

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ColOfNature's Avatar
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    The issues here are twofold: first, the made-up physics. That's fair enough, and for the sake of a good time I can let it slide and just go with the jet fighters IN SPAAAAAACE! thing, although I'd really like to see some real life physics space combat (which is why I was gutted when TorchShips didn't get funded, you fools). And secondly: if you're going to turn into robots you'd better let me grab hold of enemy capital ships and tear their turrets off with my bare robo-hands! I didn't see much evidence of that in the trailer - it looked like it was just a visual indicator for bullet time. Don't get me wrong, I like big robots (and Big Robot (and even little robots)) as much as the next man-child but it's nowhere near as much fun if they don't stomp and rend and smash.
    Last edited by ColOfNature; 14-07-2012 at 11:41 AM.


  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColOfNature View Post
    The issues here are twofold: first, the made-up physics. That's fair enough, and for the sake of a good time I can let it slide and just go with the jet fighters IN SPAAAAAACE! thing, although I'd really like to see some real life physics space combat (which is why I was gutted when TorchShips didn't get funded, you fools). And secondly: if you're going to turn into robots you'd better let me grab hold of enemy capital ships and tear their turrets off with my bare robo-hands! I didn't see much evidence of that in the trailer - it looked like it was just a visual indicator for bullet time. Don't get me wrong, I like big robots (and Big Robot (and even little robots)) as much as the next man-child but it's nowhere near as much fun if they don't stomp and rend and smash.
    I agree on the second part, there needs to be robot smashing action.

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus neema_t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I agree on the second part, there needs to be robot smashing action.
    And robots with laser (or some other bright glowy shit) -based modern versions of a variety of melee weapons. I think that falls under the category of robot cutting/slicing/rending/eviscerating action.

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Let's just call it robot porn.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    In fiction, realism only matters within the context of the fictional world. This is a fictional world in which there are spaceships that turn into robots. So the spaceships turn into robots. Enough said.
    You do realize that argument is completely pointless and you can use it to excuse anything in any setting at any time?

    Like, say, gummie bears in Fallout. According to your argument that's totally fine. Because, well, "This is a fictional world in which there are jumping cartoon bears in a post-apocalyptic setting. Enough said."

    Really?

    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic
    Also, humanoid craft have arms and legs for doing things like swinging giant space swords and roundhouse kicking spaceships.

    If you don't think that is awesome you suck.
    If you think that is awesome you are twelve. Mentally, at least. Since you watch anime I find that extremely unsurprising.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Some of the best space games of all time did not follow true space physics (TIE Fighter, Freelancer, etc, etc, etc).

    It's just a game breh.
    Games that you feel are the best of all time. Non-newtonian physics is a deal breaker for me, and clearly for Mohorovicic too.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Fighters in space is already an extremely stupid idea.

    We don't need another layer of stupidity added on top of that by making them turn into robots for no reason at all.
    Legs in space make no much sense, because theres nothing to walk into (except maybe walking over another ship?).

    You can always imagine that the robot mode allow the pilot to enter some "combat total aweresness" state where the legs of the robot are connected to his legs, the arms of the robot to his arms, and since his combat awaresness affect directly his combat effectiveness, is something you want.

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    You do realize that argument is completely pointless and you can use it to excuse anything in any setting at any time?

    Like, say, gummie bears in Fallout. According to your argument that's totally fine. Because, well, "This is a fictional world in which there are jumping cartoon bears in a post-apocalyptic setting. Enough said."

    Really?

    Really?



    If you think that is awesome you are twelve. Mentally, at least. Since you watch anime I find that extremely unsurprising.
    Spoken like a truly ignorant person. Just because "animation is for children" is a trope in some cultures does not mean all animation is actually for children. Animation is a legitimate art form and story telling platform. Is there anime created for kids? Of course, but there is also anime created for adults that are serious in tone and tell great stories.

    You are trying way too hard to make yourself seem "mature" and intelligent, which leads me to believe that you are actually neither.

    Quote Originally Posted by mickygor View Post
    Games that you feel are the best of all time. Non-newtonian physics is a deal breaker for me, and clearly for Mohorovicic too.
    And yet you play BF3 and League of Legends apparently. The first is far from faithful to true physics and is also far from realistic, the second doesn't even make sense from a realism stand point. Why can you look past the Newotnian betrayals in those games but not in this one? Double standard much?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    You do realize that argument is completely pointless and you can use it to excuse anything in any setting at any time?

    Like, say, gummie bears in Fallout. According to your argument that's totally fine. Because, well, "This is a fictional world in which there are jumping cartoon bears in a post-apocalyptic setting. Enough said."

    Really?

    Really?



    If you think that is awesome you are twelve. Mentally, at least. Since you watch anime I find that extremely unsurprising.
    Wow way to be offensive much.

    You clearly have internet syndrome and need to learn not be miserable about everything and then insult people because they like what you don't like.

    (Mostly) Everyone here is quite happy we're getting a new space biff game and if you're not looking forward to it, rather than wasting your energy telling us why we're wrong, could you please use that energy to tell us what space games you prefer or what you wish this was like, or better yet just press the power button on your PC and go outside.

    Your gummie bears argument is way off the mark too.

    The fiction of SZ0 is created around the idea of a robot and the benefits it brings to the combat situation.

    If fallout had gummie bears I'm sure most would've accepted it because it still would've been an excellent game and no doubt the bears would've been written well.

    Why don't you have a moan about time dilation too, since you seem to moan about EVERYTHING in most of your comments on this forum.

    And really the only person coming off as a twelve year old in this thread is the miserable forumite that brings nothing constructive to the conversation and just starts insulting people.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    If you think that is awesome you are twelve. Mentally, at least. Since you watch anime I find that extremely unsurprising.
    Anime is not a genre is a format. Like VHS is a format, or .... I don't know,... novel is a format. There are good novels and bad novels, but you can't say anything about all novels based on... I don't know Harri Potter books.

    The same thing apply to anime. There are a lot of lame anime, but then theres really good stuff in anime format. Liking anime don't make your stupid or something like that more than liking novels or compact disc music.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Spoken like a truly ignorant person. Just because "animation is for children" is a trope in some cultures does not mean all animation is actually for children. Animation is a legitimate art form and story telling platform. Is there anime created for kids? Of course, but there is also anime created for adults that are serious in tone and tell great stories.
    I am well aware what anime is, I even used to watch it myself, so keep the tales of "different cultures" and "art forms" for someone who will actually buy that crap. And even if there was an anime that would qualify as something for adults it wouldn't matter because we're talking about you getting excited about how by screaming really really loudly you can beat the other guy in a robot suit, which is on the G.I.Joe level of storytelling.

    And yet you play BF3 and League of Legends apparently.
    No idea where that came from since I never played either in my life, but to address the core of your argument: I'm not saying that all games should be realistic(though it helps a lot), I'm saying that suspension of disbelief has a limit, so there's only this much nonsense you can pile up before it becomes immersion-breaking.

  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    I am well aware what anime is, I even used to watch it myself, so keep the tales of "different cultures" and "art forms" for someone who will actually buy that crap. And even if there was an anime that would qualify as something for adults it wouldn't matter because we're talking about you getting excited about how by screaming really really loudly you can beat the other guy in a robot suit, which is on the G.I.Joe level of storytelling.



    No idea where that came from since I never played either in my life, but to address the core of your argument: I'm not saying that all games should be realistic(though it helps a lot), I'm saying that suspension of disbelief has a limit, so there's only this much nonsense you can pile up before it becomes immersion-breaking.
    Clearly you've never watched real anime. Keep typing though, you embarrass yourself more with each keystroke. (Hint: Dragonball Z and Naruto are not "real anime" and "power up" animes are but one of many genres anyway)

    As for the second part, if you could read you would notice I was replying to someone else who I quoted under my reply to you.

  17. #37
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    Why did I bring Japanese cartoons into this discussion? My apologies Hyper, seems it hit a sore point (And I agree, there's anime and there's anime).

    My point (and Moho's I assume) is that sacrificing realism for style can only go so far. I obviously haven't played the game yet, and I'm genuinly interested in the fighter/mech synergy, but I stand by my point - I want my space fighter games to be about dogfighting in space and my mech games to be big and stompy and on solid ground.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spengbab View Post
    Why did I bring Japanese cartoons into this discussion? My apologies Hyper, seems it hit a sore point (And I agree, there's anime and there's anime).

    My point (and Moho's I assume) is that sacrificing realism for style can only go so far. I obviously haven't played the game yet, and I'm genuinly interested in the fighter/mech synergy, but I stand by my point - I want my space fighter games to be about dogfighting in space and my mech games to be big and stompy and on solid ground.
    Honestly all that matters to me is whether a game is fun to play or not. Look at Starfox, it's beyond ridiculous. It adheres to almost no laws of physics, the world is filled with anthropomorphic muppet animal things, you fly through rings, and the main bad guy is a giant floating face. The game was insanely fun though.

    So basically, who the fuck cares? Judging a game based solely on some kind of arbitrary criteria (i.e. this game isn't an international space station simulator, I don't like it) is stupid and benefits no one. Certain people just hate EVERYTHING *cough* Moho *cough* for no reason. It's ok though, the rest of us enjoy fun.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Clearly you've never watched real anime. Keep typing though, you embarrass yourself more with each keystroke.
    Oh ho, do tell me about "real anime" then.

  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Honestly all that matters to me is whether a game is fun to play or not. Look at Starfox, it's beyond ridiculous. It adheres to almost no laws of physics, the world is filled with anthropomorphic muppet animal things, you fly through rings, and the main bad guy is a giant floating face. The game was insanely fun though.

    So basically, who the fuck cares? Judging a game based solely on some kind of arbitrary criteria (i.e. this game isn't an international space station simulator, I don't like it) is stupid and benefits no one. Certain people just hate EVERYTHING *cough* Moho *cough* for no reason. It's ok though, the rest of us enjoy fun.
    SMB puts you in the shoes of a Brooklyn plumber who clobbers giant mushrooms and turtles, spews fireballs, rides dinosaurs and occasionally flies with the help of a tanuki suit (and a tanuki is an animal that does not fly) to find a princess in a castle.

    How do you explain that? Long acid trip?

    No! FUN!
    Last edited by Nalano; 14-07-2012 at 06:08 PM.
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