Results 81 to 100 of 157
19-07-2012, 11:55 PM #81
19-07-2012, 11:57 PM #82
20-07-2012, 01:15 AM #83
He's got one of the worst attitudes around.
20-07-2012, 01:46 PM #84
20-07-2012, 03:57 PM #85
"game sales for consoles destroys pc games completely why do u think they are so cheap on steam lol."
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
-Random console gamer
20-07-2012, 04:27 PM #86
Why wait? I'm sure he's Googled his name recently enough that he's found this thread.
20-07-2012, 04:51 PM #87
20-07-2012, 04:58 PM #88
But seriously, I'm looking forward to buying the game again when it releases on Steam. I'm looking forward to playing it on a machine that isn't an ad riddled hide my games piece of shit that sounds like a hoover. Because Fez is really good and whatever Phil may have said or done in the past, telling MS that they're not getting more cert fees is far from a stupid thing to do.
Because I am Phil Fish. SURPRISE.*
*may not actually be Phil Fish
20-07-2012, 06:55 PM #89
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- Jun 2011
21-07-2012, 04:33 AM #90
21-07-2012, 04:44 AM #91
Incidentally does anyone know the sales figures for Fez? I mean it's a lot of money to push through another patch (despite the fact that he should have known that when he basically went "Man fuck everyone else I'm gonna get that BIG MONEY ON THE M TO THE S hipster sellout reefer bro!" and signed up with Microsoft) but if he's raked in a significant amount of cash I can't see why he just can't pay it and push the patch out.
Having watched that indie game documentary through it seems like Fez has always had issues. Watching him try to present it at PAX and seeing it crash so often got a good chuckle out of me, especially given what's happened now.
21-07-2012, 04:58 AM #92
21-07-2012, 05:30 AM #93
Originally Posted by soldant
So let's assume it's made a million dollars anyway for simplicities sake. It soon starts to break down when you consider that there will be a *minimum* of 30% stripped from the profits going straight to MS pockets. Depending on whether Phil took any other assistance from them, that figure could see MS taking a larger cut that could be anywhere between 30% and 40%. So, before Polytron even get paid, that million has been reduced by 300 or 400 thousand. Maybe more.
From what remains, you'll then have to remove any funding that needs to be paid back. Under the assumption (because I don't know for sure) that Trapdoor or other sources will have invested funds in order to see the game through to release, this will need to be paid back also. Then there's repayment of any outstanding loans or investments to get through cert in the first place. Let's assume 20-40k there too, any QA (don't laugh) costs. There's 5 years of development costs, which is plenty of time to rack up copious debt whilst making a game - credit cards maxxed, bank loans taken out - none of these things are unusual ways to fund indie console gaming. Then there'll be money for music, sfx or other contract jobs that were required to get the game out there as complete as it could be...
...I don't know for certain, obviously, but it's not hard to see how after 5 years of development (and all the costs that publishing on a console can rack up) vast sums of that money disappearing elsewhere promptly. So by the time you've cleared all that out the way, 40k becomes a massive chunk of what you're left with. It wouldn't surprise me if that was somewhere in the region of half of what's left over. Hopefully for Phil, that's not the case.
It's sorta the problem with trying to guess sales vs cost of patch, unless we're talking Fez doing Trials Evo or Minecraft style numbers on XBLA, you can never quite be sure that the money is there to spend. Especially with something that's taken this long.
Last edited by RobF; 21-07-2012 at 05:41 AM.
21-07-2012, 06:00 AM #94
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
That said, Microsoft and their XBLA service is generally horrible...
1) They are responsible for this DLC plague that is upon us. On the first Xbox they were the only ones to charge for content. They pegged the term "DLC" in 2002 I believe. On Xbox 360 they made it mandatory that DLC cost money and they get a cut, creating "value".
A few developers, Valve among many others spoke out about that: http://www.shacknews.com/article/60365/microsoft-forces-valve-to-price , also EPIC and Team 17/Bizarre Creations: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147804
Microsoft doesn't WANT things to be free, cause they want to create an "environment of value", and how would the big publishers look? They are the reason why "long term support" got replaced by "BUY OUR DLC!"
2) They are charging all sorts of royalties, 10% off the top of every sold game, there's also royalties for the amount of discs used, so a lot of developers are trying to fit their games on one disc, max two, even cut content and compress textures/graphics/videos/sound to the best of their ability since Microsoft didn't want to go BluRay/HDDVD from the get go, else it would be too expensive: http://www.joystiq.com/2008/08/01/carmack-rage-to-look-worse-on-360-if-limited-to-two-dvds/
And there's always long waiting periods and "certifications" for any new game or game change (e.g. Patch or "DLC"), which are likely just a pretense to generate more money that way.
3) They are treating their Indie developers like crap to be pushed around, just see this survey, most are saying it is excruciating to work with Microsoft while they love Steam: http://nightmaremode.net/2011/10/steam-beats-xblapsn-as-easiest-platform-to-develop-indie-games-on-12073/
They even wanted to fuck Indie developers over by cutting their earnings from 70% down to 35% at one point, but the backlash was so huge that they backed off in the end: http://kotaku.com/359668/microsoft-cuts-indie-royalties-in-half
They are further treating XBLIG as the red-haired step-child: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/07/xblig-feature/
And they are being beyond childish with "Exclusivity": http://nexus404.com/Blog/2011/08/24/microsoft-not-interested-in-publishing-downloadable-games-that-were-on-psn-first-microsoft-says-they-wont-publish-games-on-xbox-live-arcade-if-they-were-on-psn-first-games-that-get-more-content-on/
Let's not forget that they also bought many PC mainly developers like EPIC or Remedy off (even Halo was supposed to be a PC/Mac title) and made the internal studios that developed games for PC like Microsoft Games Studios or Ensemble turn to console development instead.
They also set Games for Windows Live upon this world, for that alone they shall burn in hell, on top of that they even tried to charge everyone using that "service" a fee similar to their "Xbox Live Subscription" till 2008 if anyone can remember, when the pressure from Steam and the people telling them to gently fuck off got too big to support such a model they suddenly didn't need a monthly fee on PC anymore: http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/22/microsoft-makes-games-for-windows-live-free-for-all/
They are horrible, and them entering the console market back when they did is one of worst things to happen to gaming in a long while, initiating all the "PC Gaming is dead" talk since it beneffited their platform, following a mass-exodus of a lot of developers to the "console pastures"...
Not to say that this Phil Fish guy is a dick too, so they kind of fit well together...
Last edited by Dexter; 21-07-2012 at 06:22 AM.
21-07-2012, 06:01 AM #95
Regardless, he chose to give everyone the finger and publish with Microsoft. I don't put my hand on a hotplate and accuse it of being an arsehole when it burns me knowing full well that it can.
21-07-2012, 06:09 AM #96
I'm not asking you to empathise with anything, just to appreciate that whether you approve or not, 5 years of full time console development comes at a price. And that price, for most indies, is generally $everythingyouhaveandthensome.
You asked how many copies it had sold and queried whether he'd raked loads of money in so therefor could just punt out a patch if so. I just responded to that. It's possible that he could given the sales figures but I'm not convinced it wouldn't be crippling.
21-07-2012, 06:18 AM #97
Most independent developers basically break even when they make a game (obviously, there are exceptions). They fall into a trap where they need a publisher or someone like MS to fund their next game to continue as a business and can never really break free of that grasp unless they make a game that is insanely popular.
I read an article about it somewhere but I don't feel like looking for it.
Success stories like Minecraft and some of the other indie games where the developer went from being broke to being a millionaire practically overnight are extremely rare in comparison to how many indie devs there are out there.
21-07-2012, 06:46 AM #98
He deserves the price. He deserves it more than Project Zomboid suffering a major setback because they had no proper backup system in place. I don't appreciate anything about it costing "$everythingyouhaveandthensome" in this case because he clearly screwed up.
21-07-2012, 07:05 AM #99
The documentary doesn't make anything clear because it's a load of bollocks but if you play Fez, it's fairly easy to see where 5 years of development time has gone. I wouldn't exactly call it wasted time.
21-07-2012, 07:16 AM #100
If Trapdoor make another game, will people buy it, given this debacle?