Results 1 to 20 of 414
24-07-2012, 06:44 AM #1
In this thread I squee about Guild Wars 2
...so as not to spam up the screenshots thread, the "what are you playing" thread, and the "I hate Blizzard but love WoW" thread.
Guild Wars 2 solved a lot of structural MMO problems for me - namely, level and gear inflation - and as such I felt the need to enumerate them.
Problem A: Zones that become pointless once you out-level them
- No longer! You never outlevel a zone. If you're level 25 and you enter a level 15 zone, poof! You're level 15, with smaller health bar and dinkier abilities. You retain the abilities you've unlocked, which gives you an advantage, but not an insurmountable advantage. More importantly, the drops and EXP you get from the lower zones are still viable for your level. Helping out your lowbie friends is still fruitful for both of you.
Problem B: Overpopulation turning PvE competitive
- WAR tried to solve this problem with public quests, and failed because public quests weren't malleable enough: Too few people and they were impossible to accomplish. Rift solved this problem with rifts, but only with rifts. GW2 solves this with everything. The more people? The more EXP. Everybody trying to kill the same mob? Everybody gets credit. Also, more mobs are spawned, so nyah!
Problem C: Level becoming the only factor that matters
- WvW solves this by making you max level, with the abilities you've unlocked. This puts you at a disadvantage to levelcapped players but not a "level 15 fighting a level 60" disadvantage. PvP puts you at max level with all abilities unlocked, producing an even playing ground for the first freakin' time ever in an MMO.
Problem D: Gear becoming the only factor that matters
- So far it looks like the whole raid scene's being sidestepped in favor of getting your gear from just about anywhere. Do what you think is fun and the gear will come to you eventually. Anything that gets rid of the treadmill is fine in my book.
Problem E: PvP population imbalances
- WvW pits your server against two other servers in three-way free-for-all. That's all well and good, unless one server dominates and you can't get a word in edgewise. But here's the thing: Every two weeks, your server gets two new servers to fight based on the results of the preceding two weeks. Server matchmaking!
Problem F: Finding friends
- In the last beta event, I was in four guilds: A friend's guild, my guild, a guild from a previous MMO, and RPS. RPS' guild was cross-server. I can join cross-server friends, as all accounts are universal. So instead of only knowing the MMO through the lens of my guild or my server, I have access to the entire community! If I had this shit in WoW, I might have actually cared about Elitist Jerks and world firsts and shit.
Oh, and no subscriptions or holy trinities. In fact, while I've complained about previous MMO contenders being "like WoW but...", I think GW2 - especially considering the design choices of GW1 - is actually not like WoW.
24-07-2012, 06:46 AM #2
24-07-2012, 06:54 AM #3
24-07-2012, 07:00 AM #4
24-07-2012, 07:01 AM #5
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Yeah the game does have the issue of just too many damn particle effects, it makes it hard to figure out what's going on sometimes. There's also some serious performance issues with the game still this past beta weekend so hopfully hose are fully fixed for launch.
But pretty much everything I agree with. GW2 definately has everything beaten when it comes to the leveling experience and without a sub that alone should easily be enough to justify a purchase. As for endgame, it's going to be redoing old content, doing a couple difficult 5 mans and then pvp. I am convinced that the first two will get old after a little while unfortunately. I don't think people will play the game in the long term/as a wow-replacement unless they like pvp.
Fortunately the pvp in gw2 is fun as hell but maybe they would have been better off to put in raiding.
24-07-2012, 07:13 AM #6
The dungeons not only foster a gear treadmill and depopulate the world zones, but they also basically say "remember all those friends you had outside your raid guild? You'll never see them again."
PvP and community should be the primary focus - PvP for its own sake is what keeps the longest gaming franchises alive, after all - and I think the whole raiding bit is a linchpin to the "theme park MMO" style that needs to die.
If longevity should be rewarded, it should be in "look at all the pretty clothing I can dress my character in" and "remember that event? I remember that event. That event was cool."
24-07-2012, 07:48 AM #7
Alright, you've convinced me. I've completely bounced off of every MMO I've ever played, but this sounds perfect.
24-07-2012, 08:02 AM #8
24-07-2012, 08:28 AM #9
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
24-07-2012, 08:54 AM #10
I'm curious. Why does everyone seem to like Guild Wars 2 that much? I really liked the original but I can't seem to get into the second one. I keep hearing great things about the combat, but I just find it to be "ok".
I played a charr engineer, it was fun shooting at people and actually having to click to do it. But once I got that "ghost busket" I lost my normal "attack" and had to wait 2 seconds before I could fire again, all the while all those ghosts were hitting me.
The graphics also aren't great, specifically the distance bits. They are so blurry I can barely see what's there. They aren't great in general, it doesn't strike me as a big step-up from the original Guild Wars, or is that nostalgia?
Also I get TERRIBLE fps in the game whilst I can run Battlefield 3 on Maximum with a decent fps.
What am I missing? I'm genuinely curious, I don't want to start a flamewar here, because I really want to like the game!
24-07-2012, 08:57 AM #11
Sounds promising so far. I really enjoyed GW1, and it seems like GW2 launches just four days before the Lady goes on a two month trip to South America. Coincidence? I don't think so. :)- If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -
24-07-2012, 09:12 AM #12
I think GW2 might draw those people in, but it's also bringing in people who don't play mmo's precisely because of the raid=endgame theory, as well as people unwilling to pay a sub. I think the game can probably survive without the traditional hard-core raid mmo players. There are plenty of people who play mmos who have been crying out since DaoC for an mmo with a decent PvP endgame.
It will be interesting to see how the game expands as it goes on though, whether they'll be doing more of the story/explorables for small groups, bigger group content or expanding the pvp systems. I think they've said previously that they'll create the new content the players want, so lets hope the tears of the raidey folk don't sway them too much.
24-07-2012, 09:16 AM #13
I can't say I share your graphics compaints, sure it's not a first person shooter drenched in AA, but some of the environments are pretty astounding (check the screenshots thread).
24-07-2012, 09:19 AM #14
Having said that, GW2 is quite revolutionary and we might think of the whole game as 'endgame'. As Nalano said, when you do pvp you are boosted to max level. In pvp battlegrounds you gain access to every single skill. Even when questing you can gain access to all the weapon skills within an hour or so of playing, so you can very quickly reach the full complexity of your class. Remember in WoW when you made a warrior and had to spend the first 15-20 hours auto-attacking and heroic striking mobs? That's what made 'endgame' so appealling, because everything up to that point was just a treadmill to keep you subscribed. GW2 doesn't use a subscription so they can get rid of that pointless treadmill.
It is for those reasons I can overlook my worries about 'endgame' whereas something like SWtoR had too little outside the class stories to compensate for the shitty endgame.
24-07-2012, 09:23 AM #15
I'd say that the problems the game does have, overuse of particle effects, bad optimisation etc. are things that should be able to be constantly improved as the game goes on so don't worry me.
I'll also add to the list of lovely things with:
Problem G: Queuing to play the game
Overflow servers allow you to play the full game whilst waiting to join the server proper and work on a per zone basis, this combined with being able to zip to your friends shard to join in works a treat and I never had to sit in a queue once during any of the BWE (including the last one which was at least in part a stress test).
24-07-2012, 09:23 AM #16
24-07-2012, 09:49 AM #17
The combat was a bit off-putting for me at first, especially the feeling of confusion when everyone is throwing all of the fireballs at everyone else. This is especially true for WvW, where I never got an idea of how useful my contribution to the fight really was. It was just a big pile of people clashing with another pile of people. Well, most of the time. That attack on the enemy fort with Timofee's Assault/Siege Golem was somewhat organised and also totally awesome.
Also the lack of customisation of the skillbar. Yes, some customisation is still there and yes, many skill combinations in GW1 were useless, but I still loved the tinkering with my character's abilities, especially in PvP (anyone remember the Oath Shot Ranger for FA?).
Graphics have never been a huge factor for me but I think that game looks pretty. I like the artstyle of the world, the only thing that I would change are some of the face choices for character generation, and maybe some of the silly armour styles (warriors showing belly and such). I experienced nearly no performance issues, maybe a crash once or twice (I am not running the game on max settings though).
Finally, your class choice might have been a bit unfortunate. I feel that the Engineer is one of the most interesting professions on paper, but felt a bit boring (and underpowered) when I tried it during the weekend. Sadly/gladly, this was the last beta weekend to toy around. Maybe there'll be a demo at some point, like the 10days demo that was available for GW1. If that becomes available, I'd say give the game another try with a different class and join some of the guild activities, they were great fun.
Last edited by squirrelfanatic; 24-07-2012 at 09:54 AM.
24-07-2012, 09:59 AM #18
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
However, I think that raiding has a place in the game as well. Not everyone likes to PvP, and so raiding appeals to them. I think one way that they could have raiding in the game without it being just a gear grind and a life-destroying process is to make it be solely for certain cosmetic items. Raids give you the "best" gear in a normal MMO. That gear is unobtainable outside that specific raid and so it becomes a symbol of your or your guild's "skill" and a means of showing off to those who don't have it. So having each raid in GW2 give you a special minipet or costume piece that's only obtainable by beating the raid would go a long ways towards appeasing the raiders and the people who don't want to raid. It still gives you something to do, and then it gives you something special for doing it.
And to prevent the raids from requiring a gear grind, they could be done so that rather than tacking on tons more HP and damage for the monsters(as compared to regular dungeon/elite-types) the raid zones could have some kind of passive debuff for players. One raid could have it so that players moved 50% slower with mobs designed to capitalize on that. Another could have it so that abilities had longer cooldowns. Stuff like that could make raids harder than a regular dungeon without going crazy on HP. And it's not like GW doesn't have a precedent for that kind of stuff, because I remember it having a few missions where you were given debuffs like that, not to mention the death penalty being a fairly major debuff as a penalty for trying to tackle something you couldn't handle.
24-07-2012, 10:20 AM #19
I'd argue that the endgame lead-in to GW2's final dungeon - a coordinated invasion of the land of Orr structured as a series of connected dynamic events - is potentially a raid in itself.
It might require continued and coordinated effort to clear the way to the dungeon, it's certainly a process that's meant to be repeated and (if other zones are an indication) it'll surely have a few mid-boss monsters of its own. It has been confirmed that there will even be location-specific debuffs in Orr that need to be dealt with.
However instead of giving out specific loot drops, I think karma (or a similar currency) is more likely to be the reward here, and with good reason.
Since ArenaNet want participants to get their fair share traditional loot tables have no place in the game, and the number of players required in the zone - and the way the objectives and rewards are divided up and doled out by event - make dropping specific, special items difficult. Instead ANet could tie the specific shiny rewards to a karma (or, er... shmarma) vendor and let the players buy whatever they like, exactly the approach they're already using for dungeons.
(Take all that with a grain of salt, it is just speculation based on what we know of Orr and ANet's objectives.)
Last edited by Screwie; 24-07-2012 at 10:36 AM.
24-07-2012, 10:23 AM #20
I also didn't have the faintest idea what to do with my skills, I got to about level 15 and bought a few skills here and there but I felt like I was missing something.
Hopefully there will be a demo of sorts and I can give it another try then. :)