Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 69
  1. #1
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    64

    Help me like DOTA

    I am puzzled with popularity of all these DOTA , MOBA games ...

    Out of curiosity i managed to get into DOTA 2 beta.

    But I can just not understand what all the excitement is about.

    I like isometric hack and slash RPGs , dont much like RTS though. And I play many MMOs and Competitive FPS games.

    Especially in DOTA 2 , i can not stand farming mobs mechanic. Its grindy and boring. The match takes too long. And usually is forfeit , because someone leaves. And PVP is mostly mater of ganging up on lonely player.

    But, so many people like it.

    There must be something great about it ?

    Can someone explain me what it is ?

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Leicester, UK
    Posts
    1,551
    I don't understand why you've made this thread? Surely there are other popular games that have not clicked with you, too? I imagine the same reasonings for MOBA games apply as they did for those.
    Itsbastiat, Dawngate
    Bastiat, Planetside 2, Miller NC
    Therin Katta, FFXIV, Cerberus

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    5,331
    Yeah, it sounds like you just don't like the MOBA genre.

    But I suggest waiting until DOTA 2 launches. It sounds like Valve has a lot of plans to reward people who make the community a nice place, so it will probably be more approachable then.

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    That hellhole known as "Spain"
    Posts
    1,784
    Playing with friends.

    Also, there's quite a bit of metagaming in it, and if you want to get really good, you need to really pay attention to detail.
    It's not a genre for everyone, though.

    If you don't have friends who play DotA2, I suggest perhaps trying to join the RPS DotA2 group?

  5. #5
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    54
    Anyone know of anything like iLoL for DOTA 2?

  6. #6
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Yeah, it sounds like you just don't like the MOBA genre.

    But I suggest waiting until DOTA 2 launches. It sounds like Valve has a lot of plans to reward people who make the community a nice place, so it will probably be more approachable then.

    I thought there is something i am missing there....

    Oh well.

    I actually liked more Bloodline Champions, where you just duke it out, without all that farming and stuff.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,982
    Unless valve can suck the venom out of the genre (doubt it) there is one rule which must be obeyed.

    1. Have your entire team made up of friends.

    That's it, suddenly you can scheme and make plans, half of the fun of dota is setting up strategies but having multiple variants so that opponents cannot properly react.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,488
    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Unless valve can suck the venom out of the genre (doubt it) there is one rule which must be obeyed.

    1. Have your entire team made up of friends.

    That's it, suddenly you can scheme and make plans, half of the fun of dota is setting up strategies but having multiple variants so that opponents cannot properly react.
    That requires having 5 friends who are gamers, play DOTA 2, and are interested in being a relatively consistent team. The first one's easy. We'll see about the second two once it hits release.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,313
    Don't try very hard to like it. It's not your job.
    pass

  10. #10
    Lesser Hivemind Node Juan Carlo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    663
    I think DOTA is too complicated for beginners to jump right into and immediately start enjoying themselves (unless they have experienced friends to play with). I actually think Valve needs to implement some kind of beginner's mode with a limited hero pool so that beginners can grasp the basic rolls of the various types of heroes easier, without being over whelmed.

    If you are really serious about getting the hang of MOBAs in general, though, I'd recommend starting with "Rise of Immortals" (which is free to play on steam). It plays like your standard MOBA, but it's a lot easier for beginners to learn the ropes because there are fewer items and fewer heroes (only like 12 or so). Plus, in my experience its community is pretty friendly (or "friendly" relative to most MOBA communities, anyway).

    Otherwise, if you want to stick with DOTA really the only way to learn the game is by just picking one or two heroes and only playing those heroes to start out with. I did this and was able to have some success, although I haven't played in a while and, honestly, I would never say I know anything about the game (items still confuse the hell out of me and I never really know what to buy). Plus, I still don't know what most of the heroes are capable of (they all tend to blur together for me, so it's hard to keep track of them). This is really a game that takes dedication and I'm not sure if it's worth it, quite frankly--although I could see it being more fun if you have friends who play (I don't know anyone who plays either so it's strictly pub games for me).
    Last edited by Juan Carlo; 22-07-2012 at 09:41 AM.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    5,331
    If anyone is going to manage to make the MOBA genre approachable, it will be Valve. They are already on record saying that they plan to add incentives to being a good community member, and penalties for being a dick.

    I think they (jokingly) said that a good person should get the game for free, a bad person should have to pay an annual fee.

  12. #12
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    58
    Whilst DOTA has some of the steepest learning curves of any game (probably because you are competing with people who have been playing it for years), there are plenty of guides and a determined gamer will be succesful.

    I think many people here like it, but a few things why DOTA is amazing still haven't been mentioned.

    1. It is one of the most team-dependent games around. You get heavily penalised for mistakes, or being bad, and it usually quickly results in a loss of the game, because the good carry's identify feeders quickly and target them. In the end-game, a fed carry is almost unstoppable. Which means, you really have to pull your weight in the 5-man team. This is both a blessing and a curse ofc.

    2. I've yet to come across the ambushing (or gank in DOTA speak) potential in any other game. I.e., using the fog of war, and abillites bypassing it, to succesfully ambush an unwary opponent.

    3. The permutations of succesfully using heroes with different initial builds and equipment, are staggering, considering how many heroes there are. For a beginner, I strongly recommend the cookie-cutter builds form somewhere like playdota.com, but once you start experimenting you can't stop.

    4. It is incredibly well balanced (there are always slight imba's with new versions, but on average) for a game that is so competitive with so many heroes and skills and equipment permutations.

    5. It is unforgiving, and your fellow team mates are ruthless if you do not pull your weight (aforementioned reason, as you likely resulted in the loss of the game). This make success that much more satisfying.

    6. Incredibly reflex and skill based game. Most battles are determined in the first 3 seconds of an encounter (5v5 especially). Makes it that much more exciting.

    For a noob, I would suggest playdota.com, plus repeated attempts at public games until you are so completely hooked you forget which month it is.

  13. #13
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    267
    Quote Originally Posted by rojimboo View Post
    5. It is unforgiving, and your fellow team mates are ruthless if you do not pull your weight (aforementioned reason, as you likely resulted in the loss of the game). This make success that much more satisfying.
    That's just sugar coating the fact that of all the gaming communities I've seen, the DOTA clones consistently have the worst. I have never seen one this openly hostile. The stakes are infinitely higher in other games, especially games like Eve. But while the latter has an incredible community, the DOTA clones seem to exclusively attract the most intellectually challenged mouthbreathers of the gaming community, overshadowing even the counter strike children..

  14. #14
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    58
    Weeelll, not sure how the stakes could be bigger (no real experience with Eve), because one player can result in a loss, and a very aggravating 30-60 minutes.

    It is true, players are hostile. And after a while (it is strange) you also succumb to namecalling and trying to get the feeder to leave, as you want to save yourself 30-60 minutes of horrible aggravation, and settle for the redistributed gold and added exp his departure will mean.

    There is a very good DOTA community in the non-public games, but even in the public games once you start pulling your weight. Nobody messes with you, and you start to work together, and even agree to which items each will get to further teamplay.

    Ps. How long do I have to wait to start my own thread, anyone know? I am doing DRM related research which is why I joined this forum. It's been 48 hours now, wtf.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,485
    I get that in DOTA games playing with strangers is a huge risk as one bad player destroys your team.

    What I don't get is that there are people who have been playing for the 10s or 100s of hours to get good enough at the game to not ruin it for other people, that somehow haven't built up a friendship list of 50 or so people that they like playing with and so don't have to play with randoms.

    It's a problem that'd solve itself if the 4 good players on a team focussed on chatting and befriending each other, rather than berating the one newbie.

  16. #16
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    267
    Quote Originally Posted by rojimboo View Post
    It is true, players are hostile. And after a while (it is strange) you also succumb to namecalling and trying to get the feeder to leave, as you want to save yourself 30-60 minutes of horrible aggravation, and settle for the redistributed gold and added exp his departure will mean.
    This, right there, is why the community is so bad. Or, to borrow a Roger Ebert quote:

    This community doesn't scrape the bottom of the barrel.
    This community isn't the bottom of the barrel.
    This community isn't below the bottom of the barrel.
    This community doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with barrels.

    By the way. Eve lets you actually lose your stuff on top of taking longer by several factors. People lost months worth of assets because someone screwed up..

    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    It's a problem that'd solve itself if the 4 good players on a team focussed on chatting and befriending each other, rather than berating the one newbie.
    Or, and I know this will blow their fragile minds, help the guy play better so you can all win.

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    That hellhole known as "Spain"
    Posts
    1,784
    Quote Originally Posted by Batolemaeus View Post
    Or, and I know this will blow their fragile minds, help the guy play better so you can all win.
    It blows fragile minds, because it's pointless. You can't all of a sudden become good in the course of a game. It takes several games and easily dozens of hours; if you end up matched with a newbie, you can't turn him into a competent player before the enemy team obliterates your base.

  18. #18
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    900
    It's about two things:
    -chasing the carrot each match
    -denying other players their goals and denying them the very things that draw people to play the game.
    -snowballing your characters' power exponentially depending on how well you do (and how poorly your enemies do)

    Those three combined are a recipe for the biggest asshole community in gaming.

    I agree with you that laning is incredibly tedious and laborious and repetitive.
    Part of the game is also figuring out builds (rather just orders) with items that have minimal effect on gameplay but more on balance/playstyle, but that quickly devolves into cookie cutter builds and is maybe fun for the first match you try a build.

    It's okay to dislike a popular genre you know, it's a game that feeds off some base human instincts and some people get a kick out of them, others don't.

  19. #19
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by Batolemaeus View Post
    This, right there, is why the community is so bad. Or, to borrow a Roger Ebert quote:

    This community doesn't scrape the bottom of the barrel.
    This community isn't the bottom of the barrel.
    This community isn't below the bottom of the barrel.
    This community doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with barrels.

    By the way. Eve lets you actually lose your stuff on top of taking longer by several factors. People lost months worth of assets because someone screwed up..



    Or, and I know this will blow their fragile minds, help the guy play better so you can all win.
    Yeah, I think another DOTA player managed to reply to this first, that actually, no matter if all 4 players devoted their entire time in coaching the newbie (and completely forfeiting the game) it would not help, at all. You need to know your builds beforehand at the very least, but more than that you need to know your role in a team encounter. This can be easily read by spending a few minutes reading the many guides around, but cannot be taught during a DOTA game.

    It is this underlying assumption, that I think differentiates DOTA from many other games. You need to do some research before playing (unless you are one of the few who figured it out for themselves after years of playing).

    The cruelty of your team is there as a sort self-balancing, self-mitigating tool that evolved all on its own. It forces a player to become better, before you can be considered a DOTA player.

    All this sounds like a monumental effort - it is not. You can easily learn a few heroes cookie-cutter builds in 10-15 minutes, and become a true asset to your team. Otherwise, you cost them the battle, and made them waste valuable gaming time.

    Don't get me wrong - you can still have a great game even if you lose. You will not, however, have a great game with an ignorant COD-playing-I-want-satisfaction-in-seconds-not-minutes noob.

    PS. I've now read all the forum rules, and there is not one single mention of posting permissions, and when new members can post new threads. Anyone know, thanks?

  20. #20
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    267
    Quote Originally Posted by rojimboo View Post
    It is this underlying assumption, that I think differentiates DOTA from many other games. You need to do some research before playing (unless you are one of the few who figured it out for themselves after years of playing).
    Bullshit.

    I've played lots of multiplayer games over the years. There were lots of inexperienced players everywhere. Showing someone the ropes in Battlefield or Counter Strike won't suddenly transform them into star players either, but you always run into each other at least twice. And even in CS I've given and received lots of helpful advice.

    That's right, the community of CS, full of snobs and children, is superior to that of the dota clones.

    You're merely making excuses for why the entire community of every "moba" throws a hissy fit whenever someone new tries to play the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by rojimboo View Post
    The cruelty of your team is there as a sort self-balancing, self-mitigating tool that evolved all on its own. It forces a player to become better, before you can be considered a DOTA player
    Hahaha oh wow. You're serious? Were you so eager to prove the point that you had to go overboard?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •