See also Surface for a prime example of pissing OEMs off.Originally Posted by internetonsetadd
See also Surface for a prime example of pissing OEMs off.
There's no manifesto. There's no formal plan.
Steam
I have to ask:
MS got sued over fair competition laws with Internet explorer being bundled with windows, the argument being that they were pushing their own product to muscle out the competition.
How is including gfwl/xbox live in the OS any different from that? Making sure it's installed on every windows pc and that people get it in front of their noses before they'd check out gog/steam/origin/ubicrapstore and what have you.
Pushing their own publisher and marketplace seems to be in the same boat to me as what got them sued over IE.
There's something similar happening: Ouya the console, overfunded at Kickstarter:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...o-game-console
Ouya is meant to run Android, which is a derivative of Linux. The console is supposed to be very open, even hardware is built to be moddable.
Besides, squirrels report Valve is making its own console.
Last edited by b0rsuk; 26-07-2012 at 05:25 AM.
Diablo3 is not PvE or PvP, it is PvAH. -- Tei
As a tech, I get to see the browsers of everybody who asks me for support, and lemme tell you: There are waaaaaay too many people using not only IE, but outdated versions of IE. It's my opinion that a lot of them are still unaware of other choices, despite the need for Microsoft to mention the existence of Firefox and Chrome, to say nothing of Opera or others. I think a lot of them think that there isn't such a thing as a "browser" separate and distinct from the OS itself, and such IE, for them, is simply the internet.
More effort needs to be done to disavow them of this notion, but this is not the direction we appear to be heading in.
Most computer illiterates indeed have no concept of what a browser is , even to this day.
I've seen relatives over the years who had a pc for 2-3 years and used it daily and still didn't know what IE really does or what the difference is between IE and explorer.
My own mother (who is 50, not that old) still makes me cringe every time I see her use her computer when I go visit.
But hey, I'm not a web designer or IT guy so I don't have to deal with the horror of IE or care that other people use it:p
She doesn't know how to install anything but she did figure out how those stupid facebook games work...
The NT line was entirely separate from the 9x line, Windows XP was the first to properly push both the home desktop and business markets onto the NT kernel. 2000 went part of the way but plenty of people didn't adopt it due to compatibility issues. XP was still a major PITA when it first came out to the point where lots of people I know went back to 98SE initially. What I was saying wasn't really contradicting you, just expanding on it.
Pretty much, yeah. But with that said I don't really think you can operate it any other way. Metro is designed for mobile computers, and an app store definitely makes life a lot easier when it comes to looking for applications. People have a lot less tolerance for finding that sort of stuff than they do for their PC, and they have even less tolerance for things that outright break the phone/tablet with freezing or whatever. Apple and Google have demonstrated the success of an app store, I don't think it's reasonable to expect Microsoft not to follow suit, nor do I think it's unreasonable for them to insist on their own store for Metro. Walled gardens aren't absolutely horrible ideas with nothing but negatives. So long as it's stuck to Metro it'll be fine. And anyway everyone says Metro sucks and they'll never touch it so I don't see why they care...
If we're going to go down that path we might as well dish out the hurt to Apple as well, because their entire premise is that they have a bunch of their own software installed out of the box with their iLife suite. On their mobile products if your app duplicates existing functionality it can be rejected, which really is highly anti-competitive and much worse than anything Microsoft have done in recent memory. With the shift to export the App Store method to OS X on the desktop, it's entirely possible that Apple could push in that direction again, which would be a nightmare.
No, I'm much less worried about Microsoft including stuff like that than anybody else. I don't think Microsoft including a store really causes a problem though because they do allow 3rd parties to develop for the platform and sell the product through the store, nor will they prohibit you from installing Steam or whatever. Gabe's just worried that a threat has appeared to Steam, but he need not concern himself because the Valve fan legion won't give it up anyway.
Noone's going to argue with you that Apple are trying to make their phones a closed platform and that they hate competition (well they already are just as closed as the console boxes) and that it's a load of crap that they can do that.
Don't share your dislike for valve though, they could've gone public but haven't (already shows a lack of greed) and it took them a long time to prove themselves (everyone hated steam as much as origin, but they eventually improved it, ea didn't with eadm).
Valve is about as benign as a publisher + dd service + developer can get by today's standards, I wouldn't worry about them until Gabe dies or gives up his throne (and then I would be extremely worried).
They are held to high standards, which is pretty much the opposite of fanboyism or a valve legion.
And you can be sure that every time they do make even a slight misstep their loyal fans are at their throat looking for blood in no time. (including yours truely)
Something you can't say about the apple community (which makes it even more scary).
MS situation is still different, apple don't control the phone market (they aren't even the biggest player, the most profitable but not the most selling) , MS pretty much have a monopoly on the pc market, every OEM pc is sold with windows, so stepping on the competition on the entire platform should be snuffed out even faster.
Last edited by Finicky; 26-07-2012 at 05:48 AM.
I love Gaben too
True, but Steam isnt a forced singular possibility of installing/owning applications on Windows 7 or otherwise. For Win8, its looking differently.
But seriously, what reason do I have to upgrade to Win8? Im so impressed by Win7, probably due to my memory of XP being so shit at times, I switched back from OSX to Win7 because OSX was even worse.
- Tom De Roeck.
monochrom & verse publications
"Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."
I was very excited about Ouya, but the more I think about it, the more I'm suspicious of the whole thing. So much so, I pulled back from putting any money into it. There are a bucket load of unsubstantiated claims in their video and they have a few pretty silly design decisions which I want to see them fix before I jump on board.
Anyway, back on topic, I don't see Windows 8 as being a big problem. Most people will just stick with Windows 7 if they can and not upgrade, which I think is why Microsoft are offering Windows 8 at such a low upgrade cost. They seem scared of the every other OS is rubbish rule and are wanting to break the cycle.
I don't dislike Valve, but I don't hold them to be the saviours of PC gaming for now and forever.
The fans jump on them whenever there's an issue with one of their games but there's a distinct theme these days of "No Steam, no sale!" which effectively means "No monopoly, no sale!" Origin was placed under extreme scrutiny with every scary bit of the EULA picked to pieces. Do the same to Valve's EULA or terms of service and people just go "Oh well, but it's Valve... it's fine."
But they haven't. Microsoft have had what, almost two decades of dominance to wipe out everything else on their platform. They haven't. They show no signs of doing so. If anything they encourage independent development for their platform because it's ultimately what keeps them installed on the vast majority of computers. In the PC market they're probably not worried because whoever is making software for it, Microsoft make the OS and they make plenty of other software development kits etc which people use. I remember when OpenGl was still an option when configuring video settings, while today most games use DirectX only. The fears of absolute Microsoft dominance have been thrown around for ages, and they've never come to fruition, because it's not in Microsoft's best interests. Ignoring the fact that they'd be wiping out the famed flexibility and variety of the platform, they'd also be in far worse lawsuits than in the EU where they were slapped down simply for bundling things like Windows Media Player with their OS.
How? Because they're implementing a store for Metro? Steam isn't going to have anything to do with Metro but even then there's nothing to say that Steam can't go to the Windows Store. It's a beat-up about nothing, there's an absurd amount of FUD over Win8. The desktop environment isn't going to change.
I dont think 8 is the problem at all. The real problems might come with 9. It's currently very hard to tell what's MS plans for the future are as a lot of their product and design philosophies seem to change. And that of course frightens companies which rely on the "openness" of the OS.
I doubt the in-OS store is an issue. Ubuntu (which currently is their main Linux OS) has a build in store too.
Last edited by bonkers; 26-07-2012 at 08:50 AM.
Can anyone actually be completely honest and name why people hate on Windows if you look at it from the average users perspective? If you either play games, simply chat & use social media or browse the web for whatever you desire - what actual problems are there with any Microsoft OS? I have used Windows 95, 98, 2000, ME, XP, Vista & Win7 which have never caused me issues or difficulties to run a private computer and utilizing what software that it should run.
Perhaps, from a developers perspective or a software guru or even an hardware enthusiast, there are issues with the OS - Luckily, you are free to use Linux which is an Open Source OS that will let you specifically develop it towards your own needs.
I think Gabe Newell is afraid that the Xbox Live Marketplace will become a direct competitor (which it surely will) to Steam. All the Microsoft Games and probably several developers who already have contracts on Xbox Live Marketplace could potentially move to Microsoft rather than use Steam. Competition is good, even for a wonderful platform like Steam. With Origin & now Xbox Live Marketplace on the loose, it will certainly become interesting to watch Digital Distribution and their respective platforms in the future. Let the war begin ;)
Malware, adware, bloatware, the three horsemen of the winpocalypse. If you haven't met them you've either never used Wintendo, or you're deluding yourself, or you're lying.
http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/micr..._abstract.html
Haha, microsoft and competition, good one. If microsoft is allowed to leverage windows monopoly and xbox against steam, steam is dead.
MS was going to be broken up:But it was overturned by some republican douche judge. Wouldn't it be great to have a company whose only mandate was to produce the best OS possible? Instead of what we have now, a company using it's monopoly to push all their other shitty products so that they can be number one in phones, consoles, tablets, and whatever else the future might bring.
I am slightly lost, I can see why the Window 8 is a potential threat to Steam, but I really do not see it actually being so, whilst yes Window 8 market will sit there (though the EU is going to have a field day, and I can't wait to see the results), I do not suddenly see every current PC gamer (the some 40 million gamers that use Steam), just jumping ship.
The last attempt at Microsoft shoving a marketplace down our throats resulted in probably the majority of PC gamers telling them to f*** off.
As I said above I do not see why anyone would, whilst yes the Windows 8 marketplace will be on all Windows 8 computers, I very much doubt many PC gamers are actually going to make the move to Windows 8, even those that do aren't just going to stop buying games from Steam.
Windows 8 may have Xbox Live integration, but we all know how well that turned out with GFWL. There is already a general hatred of the platform among PC gamers, why exactly would it suddenly become a direct competitor to Steam? Are Microsoft really going to break down 5 years of consumer bad will over GFWL, and even more bad will from the general attitude of Microsoft towards PCs as a gaming platform?
I have never had Malware, Adware or Bloatware on my Windows systems. I have neither ever invested in an Anti-Virus, Anti-Mal or Adware product. Yes, it may be the most vulnerable OS, by far - if you allow it to be so. If you visit adult sites, free games sites that solely lives on advertisement, then yes. If you on the other hand stay clear of everything potentially harmful, you won't ever experience virus, breaches or malware/adware on your computer using Windows.
Not a single individual of the average Windows user base are interesting for hackers, so unless you actively seek them out - you won't be infected.
It seems to me that Microsoft business model wasn't that sketchy - seeing as Apple is doing the completely same currently. If Microsoft was broken up in 2000, should Apple be sued and broken up today doing the exact same thing?
Microsoft is not currently a monopoly. You have the free choice of Linux, however Linux is not as good and absolutely not as user friendly as Windows, so there are no incentive for the average PC user to chose it. Microsoft currently offers the most complete and most user friendly PC operating system, as they have done since the very first version. It is not Microsoft that should be blamed for the non-existing competition on PC operating systems, but the users & developers that complaint about it and still haven't found a proper alternative / created one.
The reason people will move is because you will no longer use GFWL, but Xbox Live Marketplace. The hatred towards GFWL might be justified, I have encountered issues, nothing frustrating however - but regardless, it will no longer be GFWL, but the UI that Xbox uses. Microsoft expands their Xbox gaming platform to the PC, by integrating it with their newest OS. Quite genius as it will be visible to 50 times the number that uses Steam - without additional downloads, it is simply implemented from the beginning. This is why Steam sees it as a catastrophe as it will be a direct competitor and we will most likely see Microsoft contracts end with Steam and them going full out on their new gaming platform with Win8.
Last edited by Gozuu; 26-07-2012 at 09:43 AM.
And yet when Microsoft tried to introduce methods to abate that (like User Account Control, which everybody effectively bypasses because an admin password or permission is a pain... like in Linux!) people complained about it and turned it into a joke. The other side of the argument is that Windows is a massive target, so it's not a surprise that it's become the primary target for malware. I'm not going to write malware that might catch 10% of users...
All their other 'shitty' products? Oh, I don't know, DirectX seems to be pretty popular, and the 360 isn't that shitty (particularly when it landed back in 2006 though it's clearly ageing now). Microsoft Office is still the standard for office applications to which all the others are compared. We don't yet know how well Windows tablets will be received.
And that article you linked is just a guy with a massive rant, frequently without objective criticism. Which I would be fine with if you weren't trying to use it as proof of Microsoft being a sprawling evil empire like all the cool kids were saying back in 2005. The bits from 1999 may be of some relevance but a breakup would have done bugger all, really. And I don't see anybody flinging the same criticism at Apple, who have been doing it since freakin' forever.
You never owned XP pre SP1 then. It had a worm that could breach any new install as soon as it connected to the net. Oh they were fun times, trying to download the patch quicker than the worm disabled the system. LOL.
If only one could disable Metro from Windows 8 but that's not going to happen because windows marketplace is part of it. I tried the W8 preview and while it's running well I still don't like the metro part. Metro is fine for touch devices but for M+K desktop pc it's just useless.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
