17-03-2013, 10:47 AM
Yeh my friend started recently and found the first 10-20 games were the same for him too, low tier players don't care about leaving basically... When you get out of that "BRAND NEW PLAYERS" bracket it gets alot better.
Originally Posted by deadly.by.design
17-03-2013, 07:33 PM
It typically takes ONE HUNDRED HOURS to do that.
Originally Posted by DenieD
But be patient. It's worth it.
18-03-2013, 11:17 PM
I've played over 100 hundred hours and the overall progress is very slow. All it takes is a losing streak and I'm almost back at 'Purge casts a Pub' level. Although people learn quickly that leaving of afking is not a good idea. Bad thing about it is that they resort to flaming, screwing around and intentionally feeding (courier feeding is the worst ). Sometimes I wish they'd just leave or go afk.
18-03-2013, 11:50 PM
Secondary Hivemind Nexus
250 hours here playing with people with 1500+. It doesn't get better. There are no brackets or leagues right now, and it's not transparent how "skills" are measured (KDR/K+ADR/Wards/CS?)
I'm thinking of returning to HoN, I had 3 test games today and the impression was better than anything I ever remembered. Team communication, good lineup composition, decent personal builds and goddamn wards. Yeah there was some bashing and post-game inquisitiom, but I can live with that.
Then we played a Dota 2 game after dinner. Two russians, no communication, shitty builds, no lineup thoughts, 7 carries between both teams. And this time I was the flamer. 45 minutes down the drain because most games are lost pre-picks to solo players.
Last edited by pakoito; 18-03-2013 at 11:57 PM.
19-03-2013, 01:39 AM
Secondary Hivemind Nexus
The best you can do is accept that you will never be good enough and stop caring completely. Or take on a gratuitously angry/obnoxious alter egos and ruin 9 people's lives for an undivided hour, but I'm usually too distracted by HBO to keep up with that sort of psychological manipulation.
19-03-2013, 12:54 PM
I had no time for a lunch bot game yesterday, but managed to get 3 in last evening. Spirit Breaker, Spectre and Lycanthrope.
SB's noob appeal is evident, considering his two decent passive abilities, but so is his fun factor. I had a good game with him and found him to be an enjoyable, low maintenance hero.
Spectre required a bit of a different approach, since he gains advantages from being solo, but I also had a good game with him. (tho it helped that no one went mid, so I took it) Seems like a mid-game carry or semi-carry, but it was more like a carry in a co-op bot game. It was kind of funny to have another hero with two passive abilities, even if they work so differently. Where Spirit Breaker's were obvious, Spectre's took a little more positioning to utilize. Haunt is pretty much the best "get out of a gank free" ability I've seen so far. It's also spectacular for causing issues in teamfights, but that's why its cooldown is two minutes long.
Lycanthrope was a bit of a mediocre start, but he really begins to take off once you get increased attack speed and a vamp item. I did have a few issues with my wolves and Windrunner, as she would shackleshot us together and get the max stun duration. So, I had to be mindful to not summon them around her unless she was distracted. Either way, Lycan turns into a melee monster in the second half of the game. I hadn't played a hero who could solo Rosh for a while, so that was fun.
I've finished of the Dire STR category, so my only remaining heroes to play are Bane, Medusa, Meepo and Invoker. (probably in that order)
19-03-2013, 02:21 PM
Ahh Spirit Breaker, you nailed it there... he loses his appeal as you get into higher game play as people will counter him / not be alone on mid/low hp much. (Also evil people like me enjoy setting up traps for Spirit Breakers to charge into MUAHAHA).
Spectre you got the wrong end of the stick with sorry, alot of people do so I wouldn't worry... She's just about the single handedly nastiest carry in the game (bare possibly Chaos Knight or Void... but debates rage on about this). You build her fairly tanky and people can either die to you hitting them or die from hitting you (Refraction is just evil... I've seen Lion players ulti her and kill 2-3 people on their own team lol!). The ulti is great for her farm, she can use it in 1 of 3 ways:
- Pick off that straggler running hero that's on low hp.
- Farm to the last possible minute and then port with it into a team fight as it starts... (also can just not port in and the illusions will get you assist gold on any enemy deaths ).
- Scout the enemy team out if they all disappear (essentially making it very hard for the enemy team to gank people as you will know where they all are when they disappear).
Shes recently found a footing with some of the competative scene games again, she was looked over at first because early game she has very little impact and needs items. Realistically your going to want about 15k of items on her before shes remotely useful.
Lycan... again bit of a misunderstanding from you here I think, although admitedly in Pubs hes a beast anyway. In higher tier / competative he's used in the jungle exclusively, the wolves tank the creep camps for you as you farm them and you micro manage the wolves so as they are low you run them out of the camp and bring them back when another wolf starts to take the agro. Building a vlads early makes it easier as the wolves dmg and the armor / life leech aura on vlads means they easily take camps down with minimal micro. Competatively he's used to push towers down using the wolves and the auras he packs and then if the enemy team retaliate another lane is pushed by your team and you use the ultimate to back off. BKB is a must on him for obvious reasons (your immune to all CC of pretty much any type at that point... nets and physical stuns are annoying though lol). Another funny thing for Lycan and is used alot in competative is that any units he controls while in his ultimate get max move speed, that means that Necronomicon is insanely nasty on him, you can't get away from the little things that pack a wollop and if you kill them you get a big boom of feedback dmg in your face.
IMO try medusa next, you want a Linken's early game (using your ultimate and mystic snake for most of your dmg early game), and then a Skadi is great on her. If you can get both of them for 30 minutes in you will be really hurting the enemy with multishot.
19-03-2013, 03:39 PM
Thanks for the insights! My thoughts on a hero are always from my less competitive standpoint, so I appreciate tips for when I play against more players.
Played Medusa at lunch and didn't really like her. I had solo mid, but I was against Drow and our team was struggling. I got a handle on how to handle Drow once I familiarized myself with Medusa's skills, but she still dove at me a few times. We had a guy who really wasn't feeling Outworld Devourer, a helpful but under-leveled Keeper, a jerk who was really good at Faceless Void and someone else. So, while FV eventually carried us to a win, it took about 40 minutes and the mid-game was looking pretty bad. It ended up with FV at max level and the rest of us hitting anywhere from 15-20. Not a terrific game.
I didn't really have a handle on her abilities until farther into the game, and felt pretty incomplete until I had a Linken's and levels. Her ult is great for escaping ganks and Mystic Snake + Split Shot can be great when AoE situations. I think my main problem with her is that I prefer AGI ranged heroes with more 1v1 abilities. Split Shot can deal the AoE, but it felt odd to be a ranged agility hero without a single-target attack skill. That's kind of her point, though, as far as I can tell. Harass with Snake & Split Shot and generally be a tanky annoyance. I wasn't great at getting her farmed quickly, and I'm sure someone else can play her to much better effect.
Oh well. Three more to play. I was pretty good at Magicka's spell-combining system when I played it regularly, so I'm hoping that means I'll pick up 'Voker more easily.
Last edited by deadly.by.design; 19-03-2013 at 06:15 PM.
20-03-2013, 11:21 AM
20-03-2013, 11:25 AM
I miss Magicka.
20-03-2013, 03:47 PM
We still play it randomly inbetween dota2 :P And that sir is one of my more favourite spells. I still find Invoker too hard lol, gl
21-03-2013, 03:11 AM
You probably had a hard laning phase. Drow trumps Medusa when it comes to 1v1 in early game. She has higher damage, better attack animation, faster projectile and the second most annoying orb effect in the game when it comes to 1v1 (Huskar being number 1). Medusa isn't an efficient mid solo actually, better to lane her in the long lane and take out stacked jungle camps later (If you have good supports). Her peak farming phase is mid game. Very long term investment hero.
Originally Posted by deadly.by.design
Even today, aquila + linkens + manta is crucial on Medusa. After that you can go whatever you want. Orchid is situational on her but is extremely powerful against magic heavy lineups and/or shutting down carries plus it lets you tank with mana shield. Although sheepstick in general is a preferred item. Actually, Medusa in general is great against carries. She burns mana, steals farm from the enemy, tanks well and has an aoe slow that goes through bkb.
If you're feeling ballsy, head raw damage after her core items. She rewards patience basically.
Last edited by khaz; 21-03-2013 at 03:39 AM.
21-03-2013, 08:39 AM
I've also seen him in a suicide role where he provides support to a push strat with his global howl spell. So he just sits in a lane defensively, farms with his wolves and spams howl so the other lanes push hard. And if the push is delayed/countered, he can transition to carry as farming is one thing Lycan never has problems doing.
Originally Posted by DenieD
Its a rare strat but it works.
21-03-2013, 09:17 AM
Yeh good point I've seen that one too but I forgot about it, did you ever see the counter Lycan jungle with Bounty Hunter? That is one of my favourite "innovations" I've seen in DotA I think lol, such a horrid counter for Lycan.
Originally Posted by khaz
21-03-2013, 09:52 AM
No but that sounds incredibly fun and massively irritating for the Lycan player. What exactly would the bh do? Steal the neutrals with windwalk crits? You would need a lot of mana regen in the early game though.
I wonder if it would work with a bloodseeker; as long as he avoided facing Lycan+wolves directly, he could just farm the other camps. From level3 onwards he'll regen enough hp with each kill to not bother with tangoes/hp pots anymore.
21-03-2013, 11:40 AM
So BH goes into the woods and just sits on the edge of Lycans screen, Lycan starts jungling and BH just casually walks up and last hits his wolves and the neutral... Lycan has no CC at all so can't do anything about it, if he turns to fight the BH the BH just takes the last hits and stealths off, Lycan loses out on the farm and the BH is ahead on gold and Exp already... if the Lycan keeps farming BH just has to freely attack the wolf and take it out. At some point Lycan will need to rotate a wolf out cos of its hp... thats a free BH kill. If this is allowed to go on for more than 1 camp your ahead on levels and now have crit too to take the wolves out faster... Lycan will even end up tanking the creeps alot to stop you putting his wolves out of the game when they get below half hp... at this point you can kill him as you have a level advantage :P
Originally Posted by khaz
If anyone else comes you just simply walk away, go back to your lane or gank mid, they have probably wasted gold on anti stealth measures, pulled another guy off a lane to help Lycan and Lycan is well behind on farm...
It's hard to do properly and requires a bit of finesse but if you do it well Lycan ends up providing you with your farm, he tanks the jungle for you... gives you wolves for extra gold, a few hero kills... its not nice lol.
BSeeker probably couldn't do it because if he gets trapped he has no escape. I bet windrunner would do it even easier though, Windrun at lvl 1, Powershot lvl 2... at that point there is nothing Lycan do to stop you getting his creeps lol.
21-03-2013, 02:40 PM
Windrunner in jungle is such a waste though. Her laning phase is absurdly strong. And she can gank as well.
But yeah, I see what you mean.
Last edited by khaz; 21-03-2013 at 02:45 PM.
21-03-2013, 03:30 PM
Yeh its a sacrifice but it does mean they are literally playing 4 man after that :P
22-03-2013, 12:07 AM
Meepo was today's lunch game. I didn't feel terribly effective with him, but I was higher level than everyone else didn't die once. So, it could've been a lot worse. Most of my time was spent working the lane with my #1 Meepo and using the rest to farm. I'd call the others in for a gank or push, etc. The game also finished before he started losing his mid-game advantage. His Earthbind net takes some practice to land correctly, but the fact that it's area-based seems pretty advantageous for team fights.
I'm down to just Bane and Invoker yet to play. Scary. Feeling free to random or play whoever I actually like is going to be a weird feeling.
22-03-2013, 04:35 AM
Did you poof well with Meepo? Its a stupidly powerful spell.
As for the best meepo guide on the internet? Go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBU6cFeDqwA
Arguably the best meepo player in the world right now (Outside of China/Malaysia that is).
Last edited by khaz; 22-03-2013 at 04:38 AM.
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