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  1. #341
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    You'll be amazed how much just having a cloak in your inventory reduces Nyx's impact. This is one area where HoN is infinitely better. Straight up magic armour (And varying magic armour like physical armour on heroes) simply works better than Dota2's percentage based magic defense system.

  2. #342
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    I was under the impression that HoNs magic armour system was exactly the same as dotas, they just reported the numbers in a different way? I.e. the starting magic armour all heroes get in HoN is equal to 25% reduction to magic dmg?

    And yes it helps alot vs nyx, as with most burst heroes... hardly anyone buys it though :P

  3. #343
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    Its still a % reduction but is calculated through a straightforward armour system as you said. Like physical armour, magic armour is straight up numbers. Several patches ago, the entire hero pool was given varying magic armour levels to compensate for the role they played. So supports and initiators were given higher magic armour typically and lower magic armour to carries and tanks. So somewhere between 3.5 to 6 magical armour; roughly 20 to 26 percent natural reduction depending on hero/role.

    So virtually everyone buys a vestments - HoN's cloak - which gives you a flat +5 magic armour effectively doubling your magic resistance. And it's 150g cheaper.

    So there's a totally different avenue you can take in terms of items if heroes are tanking up in terms of physical armour and hp. There are items in hon dedicated to removing magical armour entirely or improving the damage of magical abilities (an item added not too long ago increases ALL sources of your damage output by 15%) or both at once. There's even a carry level item that ignores physical armour entirely.

    Of course this works in matchmaking only. At competitive level it's all physical with the sole exception of hellflower (orchid in dota2) which increases damage taken from ALL sources by 20%. Does orchid also disable use of items like hellflower?
    Last edited by khaz; 24-04-2013 at 02:10 PM.

  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by khaz View Post
    So there's a totally different avenue you can take in terms of items if heroes are tanking up in terms of physical armour and hp. There are items in hon dedicated to removing magical armour entirely or improving the damage of magical abilities (an item added not too long ago increases ALL sources of your damage output by 15%) or both at once. There's even a carry level item that ignores physical armour entirely.

    Of course this works in matchmaking only. At competitive level it's all physical with the sole exception of hellflower (orchid in dota2) which increases damage taken from ALL sources by 20%. Does orchid also disable use of items like hellflower?
    Ah I wasnt aware they had changed the magic armour from the flat amount it used to be (which used to equal 24.8% reduction), Orchid doesn't disable items in Dota2 no, infact in a 1 v 1 situation one of the best counters to Orchid really is another Orchid On the upside for the item in Dota its 30% dmg not 20% dmg

    Yeh riftshards, never really liked the item, seems such a waste on most heroes tbh, although I see why it can be dangerous still ofc; I feel Veil of Discord in DotA is a better item personally.

    The only item disabling silence in Dota2 to my knowledge is Doom.

    So if you hellflower someone in HoN does it stop their gem (Eye in Hon I think?) working?

  5. #345
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    I don't spectate a lot of tourney games, but the domination shown here is clear to even the casual viewer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3kn0cCGOrs

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenieD View Post
    Ah I wasnt aware they had changed the magic armour from the flat amount it used to be (which used to equal 24.8% reduction), Orchid doesn't disable items in Dota2 no, infact in a 1 v 1 situation one of the best counters to Orchid really is another Orchid On the upside for the item in Dota its 30% dmg not 20% dmg

    Yeh riftshards, never really liked the item, seems such a waste on most heroes tbh, although I see why it can be dangerous still ofc; I feel Veil of Discord in DotA is a better item personally.

    The only item disabling silence in Dota2 to my knowledge is Doom.

    So if you hellflower someone in HoN does it stop their gem (Eye in Hon I think?) working?
    Ahh, no. Riftshards is HoN's version of Buriza. The item you're thinking of is harkonz blade which ignores physical armour. And yes, it's quite useless atm. Veil is a fucking great item and i love that its aoe castable. There is something similar in hon called spellshards which increases your magical penetration: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/wi...hp/Spellshards

    You know what, I don't know if hellflower disables eye/gem. Will have to test. The other thing hellflower does as well is that it makes you leave a trail behind you so you can't even get away if you tried.


    Fuck, doom. I hate that bastard and that spell with a passion.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by DenieD View Post
    Imagining that Skywrath has 1 bracer, Rod of Atos and a set of boots your adding 100 dmg onto mana burn and Dagon is cheaper than Atos for Nyx giving him another 300dmg burst.
    If there's a Nyx in play and you don't go Force, you deserve to get fucked.

  8. #348
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    Forcestaff? Hows that help? You won't ever get to cast it lol.


    Ah I think Spellshards was what I was thinking when I said Riftshards, Harkons is a bit like silencers orb but hits like a truck I seem to remember was it nerfed? I think it was puppetmaster that I used to get Harkons on.

    I was messing around with an offlane Magnus last night, no matter how much I look at it I don't think it should really work but ... well it did :S Ended up RP'ing people because it was funny rather than needed, Refresher blink Magnus is rediculous no matter what lane he starts on Also we had a void which with empower is "fun".

    Also did a TMM which went down to the wire, I was Sven cleave critting for 1.7k midas (which I sold later to free up space), Daedalus, BKB, Mask of Madness, most of a heart and replaced the Midas with a Gem as we sorely needed one. I wasnt the preferred carrier but no one else was living as long as me. Their Naix took it, lucky bash while he was on 100-200 hp in 2 consecutive team fights, so annoying lol... Other than that, I think their Puck was MVP for that game, initiating on our Warlock in really nice ways. Got a rampage in the ensuing Chaos early on and nearly rax'd them but they glyphed and bought back to save it... I think that was the turning point :S

    (This wasnt the first SSMB game, we've had problems getting people together and are going to grp up next week as people have commitments, bloody real life!BAH!).

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenieD View Post
    Magnus is ridiculous no matter what.
    Yes. 123456789

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    I don't spectate a lot of tourney games, but the domination shown here is clear to even the casual viewer.
    Yeah that game was insane. Over in ~8 minutes. The funny thing is that Admiral Bulldog sent his tree's into the enemy jungle in the previous game too, by mistake, so the enemy team was making fun of him for that. Makes you think how much of a mistake it really was the first time around.

    Also, what's up Dota chums. I've been playing quite a lot of Dota2 lately, but don't have anyone to play with other than one other friend and only when he comes over. I have to say, as much as I like the game, solo-queuing is rather boring. I'd love some more organized play with people who aren't afraid to goof around a bit. Looking forward to seeing you guys ingame.

  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bork Titflopsen View Post
    Also, what's up Dota chums. I've been playing quite a lot of Dota2 lately, but don't have anyone to play with other than one other friend and only when he comes over. I have to say, as much as I like the game, solo-queuing is rather boring. I'd love some more organized play with people who aren't afraid to goof around a bit. Looking forward to seeing you guys ingame.
    I'd be up for doing some in houses one weekend - 10v10 stuff but I dunno what our skill ranges would be like; alot of our in houses have broken down into 2 teams of 5 just queueing together recently because the skill divide was a bit hard to balance vs.

  12. #352
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    People always seem to be in the middle of two separate games when I check in on the mumble server. While I've played more pub matches to get a bit of player experience under my belt, I'm still pretty far below the regular RPS players' 200+ wins. Everyone's been pretty nice about it on the occasions I've played, but it's hard to not feel like a liability when playing so far out of my league.

  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    People always seem to be in the middle of two separate games when I check in on the mumble server. While I've played more pub matches to get a bit of player experience under my belt, I'm still pretty far below the regular RPS players' 200+ wins. Everyone's been pretty nice about it on the occasions I've played, but it's hard to not feel like a liability when playing so far out of my league.
    I like how people use the amount of wins as some sort of measure of skill.
    I like it because it enables me to look at people at laugh at their silliness.

    Wins can, at best, be an indicator of experience, but sure as hell not skill. Got a couple friends with WAY many more wins than I do, yet they're clearly worse than me (one still doesn't quite get lane positioning and his reaction times in team fights aren't particularly good, and the other one has the potential to be "good"*, but he's way too ballsy and ends up feeding in most games because once he smells a possible kill, he never lets it go).

    Don't think I've ever played with RPSers but if an inhouse is set up, I wouldn't mind partaking in it if time permits.

    *Good compared to me, not in the overall scheme of things; I'm still a scrublord.

  14. #354
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    I guess I'm still using wins as a general metric due to how games have gone in and out of my matchmaking tier.

    In terms of how my pub matches have been going, they're still mixed... but I expect that is the norm. My last match was a right-click rodeo where I was allowed to dominate as Sniper mid. It actually made me feel a bit bad, since I know how it is to be on the receiving end of that with a mediocre team. But hey...a W is a W, and I had fun DPS stomping.

    On a side note, I was wondering about something... There are all kinds of quick-reference sites for Dota and Dota 2, but is there a site that can quickly list counter-heroes? For instance, select a hero from the list/grid/whatev, and it tells you what picks are good counters for that selection. I know experience will eventually tell me how that all works, but a reference would really help me at this stage.

    /edit because google works/
    http://www.dotaedge.com/
    and
    http://www.mobacounter.com/dota/

    The first site seems like the more polished option, since it aids in countering entire enemy teams in the selection process. I'll definitely use that next time!
    Last edited by deadly.by.design; 25-04-2013 at 04:00 PM.

  15. #355
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly.by.design View Post
    On a side note, I was wondering about something... There are all kinds of quick-reference sites for Dota and Dota 2, but is there a site that can quickly list counter-heroes? For instance, select a hero from the list/grid/whatev, and it tells you what picks are good counters for that selection. I know experience will eventually tell me how that all works, but a reference would really help me at this stage.
    http://www.dotaedge.com/

    It doesn't really elucidate why these picks are good, e.g. why you might want to pick Silencer vs. a low INT-gain STR hero.

  16. #356
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    http://www.dotacounters.com/ - This started out well but I havent used it before and I think some of the "counters" proposed are a bit silly. Like my friend who tells me Nyx is countered by Dust... I pointed out nicely that dust is reactionary and its a bit late by then, wards or a gem...

    Anyway, if we can get a few people together we could work something out, if there's enough we might able get a higher and a lower skill bracket 5v5 going (i.e. so 2 5v5's), if not we can try balancing the teams out with a few good and a few newer players sprinkled on both teams. It's all for a laugh anyway, if the stomp is going to hard we just mix the teams up as its no fun for anyone then.

    As for wins ='ing skill, yeh its not a good indicator really tbh, I have less wins than some people I butcher simply because they started in DotA2 and I've been playing since early DotA1 lol. Wins / Lvl being better than 10 is a pretty good indicator if they have never used an XP boost but then that goes out of the window... DotaBuff is your best bet tbh. Look at their highest GPM, Last hits, etc in the last week (although again... pinch of salt required). Assume everyone is better than you and surprise yourself when you play them off the lane

  17. #357
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    Also me and some friends did a game vs 5 new players just moving over from LoL the other day, we did reverse captains mode and picked generously for them while they picked us a terrible horrid team... was a good game - we lost in the end cos we left it too late - but it was a good game and having to try and carry as Lion or something balances it all out .

    (I think we got given Meepo, Invoker, Chen, as our first 3 heroes... which aint bad if you can actually play them heroes and they knew we couldnt... we picked them Lich, Tidehunter, etc...).

  18. #358
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    Lion carry is no prob. Treads, linkens, magic wand as core. Max stun and hex, don't bother with mana drain, max out stats first. After core items, it's situational. Stygian, mjolnir, force staff, mkb all options. I like stygian because its money for damage ratio is amazing and when hexed you have zero armour so you're maxing the damage. If you need bkb, then get that before a damage item.

    In team fights make sure you're ground clicking to try and maximise how many people you stun. The stun goes further when ground stunning. and try and ulti a different target from the one you are physically attacking. Your best lane would either be solo mid or safe lane solo as lion needs both farm and levels. If you're safe lane solo then carry a tp for fights, don't go ganking. If mid, gank only when necessary to maximise your farm time. You want that level 11 ASAP.

    If there's one thing that pisses me of about solo mids is those who don't gank at all. If you have a farming solo mid, that's fine but generally you don't. What pisses me off even more however, is solo mids who gank unnecessarily and let their lane opponent get levels and farm. >
    Last edited by khaz; 25-04-2013 at 05:06 PM.

  19. #359
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    I am playing a new game-within-a-game. You get Treant protector, right, and you try and deny every single creep in a wave with your enormous tree fists.. So useless, yet so much fun.

    I really like denies.

  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiiiiim View Post
    I am playing a new game-within-a-game. You get Treant protector, right, and you try and deny every single creep in a wave with your enormous tree fists.. So useless, yet so much fun.

    I really like denies.
    Tiny is good for doing that.


    Also never ever do it but if your in the situation where you really really have to carry Lion then Dagon, Refresher, Ethereal Blade is pretty funny

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