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  1. #601
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    Don't build battlefury on anything. Except maybe magina and juggernaut.

    I absolutely loathe the item. Midas is a better tool if you want to farm. When Kunkka players get it my eye twitches.
    Last edited by khaz; 12-09-2013 at 12:06 PM.

  2. #602
    Network Hub starmatt's Avatar
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    Denied is totally right. The Aristar whatever ingame guide is BULLSHIT. Don't go BF on BH. Repeat after me. Don't go BF on BH.
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  3. #603
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kaira-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khaz View Post
    Don't build battlefury on anything. Except maybe magina and juggernaut.

    I absolutely loathe the item. Midas is a better tool if you want to farm. When Kunkka players get it my eye twitches.
    Nah, bfury is surprisingly solid farming item and the cleave, while small, isn't something to just throw away. Granted, if it takes you over 20mins to get it, don't bother. Same with midas, except 10 minutes.

    [E] Of course, in case of BH, you shouldn't be farming creeps - you should be farming heroes. Get desolator or I will yell at you. >:|


    On another note, gotta love it when people pick Void no matter what the team already has. Void on dual hard lane isn't going to get much farm unless they can score some kills, so why even bother? Pick something for mid (if there isn't anything there yet). And for the love of god, don't call gg 10 minutes in if the enemy team isn't on complete stomp. /rant

  4. #604
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    Unless the hero has natural skills to complement the cleave - magina attack speed, juggernaut crit, pa crit, alchemist greed to a lesser extent - there is no reason to get the item.

    Virtually all other melee carries/heroes have no business getting the item. Its inefficient. Vanguard, soul ring, urn, drums, bkb, etc. are far more important items.
    Last edited by khaz; 12-09-2013 at 12:35 PM.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by khaz View Post
    Unless the hero has natural skills to complement the cleave - magina attack speed, juggernaut crit, pa crit, alchemist greed to a lesser extent - there is no reason to get the item.

    Virtually all other melee carries/heroes have no business getting the item. Its inefficient.
    Anti-Mage always seems to work well with a BF for quick farming.

  6. #606
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    I keep forgetting many dota2 players don't use or know dota1 terms. My bad there.

    Magina = Anti-Mage
    Last edited by khaz; 12-09-2013 at 12:41 PM.

  7. #607
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    Ah, I'll plead ignorance on that one - Wasn't a DOTA 1 player, and only started playing the game a few months back for lack of other games to play!

  8. #608
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    Its not an ignorant thing. Valve took a conscious decision to only use hero titles, not names. Its a good decision but some names just blurt out sometimes.

  9. #609
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bobtree's Avatar
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    I know when to deviate from Valve's default builds, but I'm curious about how reliable the player-submitted in-game guides are. I've never used the feature. Does every hero have a good top-voted build? Would you recommend them for new players? Do you use the subscription feature? How about for skills as well? I might be past the point where they're very useful, but I haven't seen this feature discussed much.

  10. #610
    Network Hub Stirbelwurm's Avatar
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    Damning a single item like that is really counterproductive. There will always be situations where an item fits, when it would normally not be the case. I understand that most people want to discourage less experienced players from making certain common mistakes in item builds, but I don't like it when it's just said that a certain item sucks and you shouldn't get it.

    Even without the cleave, Battlefury has one of the best damage per gold ratios in the game. Also, because of the way that cleave works, it can be pretty usefull in team fights too (cleaved damage cannot be evaded and it completely ignores the amount of armor that the unit has).


    So, just to tie both Void and Battlefury rants together, I present you a game I recently had, where a friend of mine rushed Battlefury on Void, just to make sure that he can farm faster than the Antimage on the other team (which wasn't easy, because AM had free farm most of the time): http://dotabuff.com/matches/306366614

    Also, surprisingly it was the agha on Void that clearly won us this game. This is something you normally wouldn't expect too, but it paid off big time in this game. I suggest you watch it, it was quite fun to play.
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  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobtree View Post
    I know when to deviate from Valve's default builds, but I'm curious about how reliable the player-submitted in-game guides are. I've never used the feature. Does every hero have a good top-voted build? Would you recommend them for new players? Do you use the subscription feature? How about for skills as well? I might be past the point where they're very useful, but I haven't seen this feature discussed much.
    From my short stint in DOTA 2, I always drag up a guide when I random a hero I haven't played, and I do find them very helpful. Some people have written detailed reasons as to why you should get certain items and also where to put skill points when you level, again explaining why

    Of course, it's almost always situational when it gets past laning, and this is just how one person likes to play, but they really do give a helping hand getting started.

    Beware, there are some that I have found terrible (Could have just been me though)
    Last edited by DogsCanGrowBeardsAllOver; 12-09-2013 at 02:37 PM.

  12. #612
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    There's a number of good player guides floating around in the system, most of the French guys guides (hes usually in the top 10 voted for each character) are actually quite good, a number of them are a little weird though...

    I might publish my BH one tbh at some point. I currently make alot of them and set them to private so I have my own guide on that I have made out of the game and can then find the items faster ( I have a note pad full of hero builds I've made over the years with little notes scribbled all over them like "If they pick X then get Y before Z time" so it helps keep that in game and I don't need to transfer them all to some proper organised folder or something lol).

    The thing to remember though is there should always be deviations allowed in builds (very few cases not to) depending on things your enemy / allies are doing.

  13. #613
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    Oh and for those that don't know why Valve went with just hero titles (its a very good decision) its because in DotA 1 all heroes had 2 names and most had 3:

    Hero Name: i.e. Barathrum
    Hero Title: i.e. Spirit Breaker
    Fun Name (Would randomly spawn with this instead of hero name some times): Road Runner.

    Sven being my favourite Fun Name, he was sometimes called Arnold Schwarzenegger.

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stirbelwurm View Post
    Damning a single item like that is really counterproductive. There will always be situations where an item fits, when it would normally not be the case. I understand that most people want to discourage less experienced players from making certain common mistakes in item builds, but I don't like it when it's just said that a certain item sucks and you shouldn't get it.

    Even without the cleave, Battlefury has one of the best damage per gold ratios in the game. Also, because of the way that cleave works, it can be pretty usefull in team fights too (cleaved damage cannot be evaded and it completely ignores the amount of armor that the unit has).


    So, just to tie both Void and Battlefury rants together, I present you a game I recently had, where a friend of mine rushed Battlefury on Void, just to make sure that he can farm faster than the Antimage on the other team (which wasn't easy, because AM had free farm most of the time): http://dotabuff.com/matches/306366614

    Also, surprisingly it was the agha on Void that clearly won us this game. This is something you normally wouldn't expect too, but it paid off big time in this game. I suggest you watch it, it was quite fun to play.
    I said I loathe the item, nothing more. I simply said its inefficient to get items that as a general rule do not complement a hero's skillset. And battlefury is specifically designed for melee carry heroes. There are a few that it works on brilliantly, on others its average and on the rest its mostly a slot wasted.

    Your example is the exception that proves the rule. It was a very specific set of circumstances and the idea worked. That doesn't happen as often as you think and there are always other circumstances - player skill, team coordination, timing etc. - that are out of your control you can't account for.

    And its like you said, if you're still new to the game, its in your best interests to get used to item builds that provide a degree of efficiency with your hero. Once you're comfortable enough to go beyond that, do so.

  15. #615
    Network Hub Stirbelwurm's Avatar
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    You know, because of all the hate against Battlefury I used to buy two Battlefuries on Medusa, before getting a Linkens. This was several years ago, but it was quite fun, because it enraged both team mates and my enemies :) (it also worked more often than not). Back then it was even worse (and BF also had worse stats) with the attitude players had towards it. Some even joked about buying several BFs and placing them around themselves on the ground and thus prevent the enemy from doing anything against you, since the item is so bad, that he'd fear of accidentally clicking on one of the BFs on the ground.

    Well whatever, I can't remember when I bought this item the last time, but mainly because I only play initiators or support heroes.
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  16. #616
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    Medusa + 4 battlefuries + linkens + treads was standard pub build years back. Her mana shield never went down on account of insane mana regen.

  17. #617
    Network Hub Stirbelwurm's Avatar
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    Those were the days.
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  18. #618
    Activated Node Zungado's Avatar
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    Hey, I'm just curious how long on average it takes you guys to find a match? Seems to take me 3-5~ish minutes.

  19. #619
    Network Hub deadly.by.design's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenieD View Post
    There's a number of good player guides floating around in the system, most of the French guys guides (hes usually in the top 10 voted for each character) are actually quite good, a number of them are a little weird though...
    I had been wondering why so many teammates had been going Nyx and insisting on mid lately. (with mostly poor results)

    Then I caught a quick bot match yesterday and randomed Nyx. His top-rated build is a solo mid guide. That explains things... :\

  20. #620
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    In DotA 1 he was played as a standard mid solo, farm dagon, roam after level 6 hero before a few skill reworks transformed him into an amazing support.

    That's probably where that mid guide comes from.

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