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Thread: Gw2 pvp

  1. #1
    Lesser Hivemind Node apricotsoup's Avatar
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    Gw2 pvp

    Here we can talk about ze pvps

    I know there's a lot of interest in the WvW and I shall happily jump in along with you chaps and chapettes for that but I was also curious as to whether we were growing any teams for the arena based PVP as I'd certainly be interested in joining in for some of that.

    My plan is to play my asura warrior primarily at first but I'm quite willing to try a few other classes as well for pvp should we get too many.

    So, anyone else fancy some little teamwork?

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    I've not played any sPvP since BWE1, but I had a really good time. I would definitely be interested i playing this side of the game more.

    I believe that we'll also be able to set up custom tournaments, so we could have a few friendly PvP contests for guildees only as special events.

  3. #3
    Network Hub sendmark's Avatar
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    Yeah PVP always ends up as my main interest. It does look like GW2 is much less about the build, so pretty much any character class seems viable in a team. With the maps they have atm, it seems to be all about fast movement to claim and assist points + defensive skills to hold off attackers.

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    Network Hub desvergeh's Avatar
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    I didn't get around to trying pvp in any of the BWE, only tried the RvRvR (which was very impressive). Is it ultra-competitive and aggressive if you screw up?

    Have enjoyed the pvp in WoW and WaR, but I've never enjoyed being mouthed off at over xbox live.

    There are obviously the extremely competitive areas of pvp in this (monthly/yearly tournaments), but are there also more casual pvpers just looking for some fun? Or will I just spend my time being tea-bagged by uber Charr?

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    Lesser Hivemind Node noaru's Avatar
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    Doing some sPvP with a premade team sounds perfect. I don't know if I want to play PUG sPvP considering what unorganized crapfest this usually is.

    I think small scale battles in sPvP fit like a glove the mesmer I'm going to be playing.

    And we can adapt the group composition very easily, you can jump into sPvP with a 5 minute old char if you need to change the class you're playing.

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    Lesser Hivemind Node apricotsoup's Avatar
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    You can jump in pretty quickly but it's probably best to be at least a little familiar with a character because you're likely going to want to change up the skills and gear you go in with.

    But yeah the system is so adaptable that any class can be pulled into a group without too much warning.

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    Activated Node Kismet's Avatar
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    I tried sPvP only during the first BWE, but I'd be interested in venturing there with other guildies.

    Days of regular team trainings, scrimms and tourneys are long gone though, so unless I get a terrible crush on the format my commitment will most likely be on the casual side of the spectrum, especially in the early days after release (so many things to do!).
    Last edited by Kismet; 01-08-2012 at 03:30 PM.
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  8. #8
    Lesser Hivemind Node noaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apricotsoup View Post
    You can jump in pretty quickly but it's probably best to be at least a little familiar with a character because you're likely going to want to change up the skills and gear you go in with.

    But yeah the system is so adaptable that any class can be pulled into a group without too much warning.
    Oh yeah, that's for sure. I gave the most extreme example, which might work after 1y of GW2 when you're going to be pretty familiar with what other classes do (especially if you've been pvping against them in the meantime).

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    I'm in. I won't go into WvW before my character reaches at least level 30, so before that I want to do some arena fighting. It would be great to form some sort of a team and play together.

    On the side note - what do you think of GW2's system? Do you think it's deeper than the one from the original? There's one thing that bothers me - only one class. I miss multi-class system from GW 1. Besides that this new concept seems pretty deep and fun. Didn't have the chance to try the trait system but it looks like it's pretty complex.

  10. #10
    Network Hub desvergeh's Avatar
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    Tried the structured pvp last night with some friends.

    First couple of games went well, then we bumped into a group who seemed to know how to play their classes and actually stayed grouped together! Needless to say we got stomped.

    Still, did see that the pvp will provide a mixture of players, some of which I might actually be able to beat!


    One note that is a slight concern... as all classes can do all things (tank, heal, dps), it kind of means you never know who you should be targetting first. Usually you kill the healer first, or you just end up dpsing people whilst they are healed to full. However as any one of the enemy could be the healers, how do I prioritise targets? Or is it just that I need to observe and adapt better, and this is one of the changes I need to get used to compared to WoW?

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    I didn't play PvP yet so don't take me for an expert but from what I've seen while playing Mesmer and a bit of Engineer (DPS/Support and Support respectively) I think you need to be good at being pain in the neck for your opponent. In "normal" MMO you'd look for the healer first, now you need to find the support guy and make sure you make his job as annoying as possible while the rest of the team gets rid of DPS's and Tanks. In GW1/WoW/Any other MMO you'd know who should be your target by checking classes, here you need to actually look at your opponent and see what he/she is doing. I guess it'll take some time to get used to but will be fun when (if) we finally get it.

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    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    At the basic level, the game itself does help in this area. The fact that boons and conditions are universal between all classes and highlighted on your UI, and the big red outlines around enemy AoEs, means you don't have to know exactly what your enemies' skills do in order to react to them.

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    Yeah but that's from the defensive point of view. If you need to avoid the skills, it doesn't matter who's using them. But if you want to prevent them, you need to be observant and able to spot all those little signs. If you see mesmer with a staff, you're sure he's supporting his team by casting random conditions on your team and random boons on his. If he's running with a sword, he's DPSing but can still be very disruptive thanks to illusions. With engineer it should be quite simple as it's mainly support class, although I'm sure it's possible to make a Control or DPS build with it. Question is, how effective will it be.

    I honestly can't wait to get into PvP as it looks like very deep and well thought system. And the fact I'm in a guild with people share my view on games and gaming makes me even happier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrill View Post
    On the side note - what do you think of GW2's system? Do you think it's deeper than the one from the original? There's one thing that bothers me - only one class. I miss multi-class system from GW 1. Besides that this new concept seems pretty deep and fun. Didn't have the chance to try the trait system but it looks like it's pretty complex.
    Frankly it's ok as casual fun but I'm guessing it'll get really old very soon. GvG in GW1 was much better and deeper, with multiple routes to victory, and multiple viable strategies which you could adjust on the fly if you found the one you chose not to be working. Point capture maps are more about movement than fighting - even when you do meet the enemy it's likely to be an asymmetrical battle so you'll either win or lose easily. It's not gonna be quite as bad in an organised team with voice comms, but it's still going to be mostly 1v1 or 2v2 battles, which gives much less scope for the kind of teamwork we had in GW.

    Sadly, even if they do reintroduce GvG as a competitive mode (instead of the lame point capture maps), or even something like HA/Tombs with a sequence of different game types to play through, it's not gonna bring back the same depth of teamwork because of the way the game now works. Now we get 15 skill slots instead of 8 so it's much easier for everyone to have a well-rounded build, whereas in GW1 everyone was a specialist, we had to rely on our teammates a lot more. There's still scope that specialist builds will emerge in GW2 as well though, which means maybe we'll get a bit of the old school kind of teamwork. I mean there's combos already, but frankly they're underpowered, and so readily available that you don't need to build specifically with them in mind, you can just bring the build of your choice, spam your skills, and reliably pull off combos randomly. I'm very hopeful they'll find ways to improve it though, because the core gameplay (when you're playing as an individual), is great fun, and if they manage to tweak the system to add great teamwork on top of that it'll be awesome!

    So yeah, bottom line is I'll be very interested in spvp if we get a team going, and although to start with it probably won't really matter what you bring until custom team builds emerge I definitely plan to leave a character slot empty so I have the option of making something different if the team has a specific need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manveruppd View Post
    Frankly it's ok as casual fun but I'm guessing it'll get really old very soon. GvG in GW1 was much better and deeper, with multiple routes to victory, and multiple viable strategies which you could adjust on the fly if you found the one you chose not to be working. Point capture maps are more about movement than fighting - even when you do meet the enemy it's likely to be an asymmetrical battle so you'll either win or lose easily. It's not gonna be quite as bad in an organised team with voice comms, but it's still going to be mostly 1v1 or 2v2 battles, which gives much less scope for the kind of teamwork we had in GW.

    Sadly, even if they do reintroduce GvG as a competitive mode (instead of the lame point capture maps), or even something like HA/Tombs with a sequence of different game types to play through, it's not gonna bring back the same depth of teamwork because of the way the game now works. Now we get 15 skill slots instead of 8 so it's much easier for everyone to have a well-rounded build, whereas in GW1 everyone was a specialist, we had to rely on our teammates a lot more. There's still scope that specialist builds will emerge in GW2 as well though, which means maybe we'll get a bit of the old school kind of teamwork. I mean there's combos already, but frankly they're underpowered, and so readily available that you don't need to build specifically with them in mind, you can just bring the build of your choice, spam your skills, and reliably pull off combos randomly. I'm very hopeful they'll find ways to improve it though, because the core gameplay (when you're playing as an individual), is great fun, and if they manage to tweak the system to add great teamwork on top of that it'll be awesome!

    So yeah, bottom line is I'll be very interested in spvp if we get a team going, and although to start with it probably won't really matter what you bring until custom team builds emerge I definitely plan to leave a character slot empty so I have the option of making something different if the team has a specific need.
    You speak with a lot of certainty in your opinion about unreleased game. I'm not going to argue though, as I'm far from being expert in GW1 PvP. There's one thing I strongly disagree with. It's very easy to make specialised build in GW2, thanks to traits. I think it will prove to be quite effective to set your traits towards one style of play while still giving you a chance to "adjust on the fly if you found the strategy you chose not to be working."

    Now about number of skills and flexibility. GW2 gives you more skills than GW1 (at least 10) but in terms of flexibility it's more complicated. You have 5 base skills (6-10) and then weapon skills which can be treated as only 2 (slots 1-3 and 4-5). In most cases we have 2 weapon sets which makes it 4 + 5 base. 9 altogether. That's not that much more than 8 in GW1, right? There are ways to increase this number but it usually requires using specific skills so it's really a part of certain strategy.

    Are combos underpowered? I don't know, maybe. I recommend you to read "GW2 mechanics" thread, we discussed this matter there, and I'm eager to continue. I remember one of the devs said once "Numbers can be tweaked". If combos will prove to be underpowered in competitive play I'm sure devs will do something about it.

    I guess we need to wait and see what happens. I agree that 5v5 matches are not enough but they have to start with something, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrill View Post
    You speak with a lot of certainty in your opinion about unreleased game. I'm not going to argue though, as I'm far from being expert in GW1 PvP. There's one thing I strongly disagree with. It's very easy to make specialised build in GW2, thanks to traits. I think it will prove to be quite effective to set your traits towards one style of play while still giving you a chance to "adjust on the fly if you found the strategy you chose not to be working."
    Oh yeah, I know that things will probably changed, and, like I said, I'm hoping they will be! It goes without saying that my opinion only applies to BWE 1-3. Actually more 1-2 cause I did very little pvp in 3! And yeah, it is possible to be a bit of a specialist if you trait for it (although actually gear makes much more of a difference than traits do I've found - for instance if you're trying to be a healer type the most +compassion you can get from attributes is +300 and the best traits will give you maybe -20% recharge on your healing skills, and that pales in comparison to the +963 you can get from specialised amulets and armour runes), but that doesn't stop you from doing other things as well, like dealing damage, or inflicting conditions or performing crowd control. And that's what makes for less team work: you're less dependant on your teammates. And like I said, that's not really such a horrible thing: it makes the spvp more casual-friendly, more lighthearted fun. I'm just saying that it's not gonna be the same kind of deep and intense team-based game that GW1's GvG was.

    Now about number of skills and flexibility. GW2 gives you more skills than GW1 (at least 10) but in terms of flexibility it's more complicated. You have 5 base skills (6-10) and then weapon skills which can be treated as only 2 (slots 1-3 and 4-5). In most cases we have 2 weapon sets which makes it 4 + 5 base. 9 altogether. That's not that much more than 8 in GW1, right? There are ways to increase this number but it usually requires using specific skills so it's really a part of certain strategy.
    Err, why do you count weapon skills as 2 slots? You have 5 skills on each weapon, so 10. 20 if you're an elementalist, since you have only 1 weapon but 4 attunements. And 5 utility/healing skills on top of that. The point is that some of them are damage skills, some of them are crowd control skills, some are healing skills, so you have the option of having a good variety of tools and have a very self-reliant, well-rounded build if you pick your weapons right. Which, again, I didn't say that was a bad thing in itself, just that it makes team work in pvp matter less. And I mean teamwork in the sense of co-ordination during an actual fight, not teamwork as in you run to this point, I run to that.

    Are combos underpowered? I don't know, maybe. I recommend you to read "GW2 mechanics" thread, we discussed this matter there, and I'm eager to continue. I remember one of the devs said once "Numbers can be tweaked". If combos will prove to be underpowered in competitive play I'm sure devs will do something about it.

    Yeah, they definitely are underpowered, and I hope that you're right and that they'll tweak them. Not just make them more powerful, but also make them a bit harder to pull off on your own, so that you need teammates. It was actually with me that sendmark was testing them out in BWE1, I brought a necro and he brought a mesmer and we were trying to spread blinds and confusions, but we found it very lacklustre. In fact it was way easier for him to inflict confusion using his spammable weapon skills than to combine with me, and it was easier for me to spread blind (not just through simple skills but also by combining marks and wells in combos on my own)! :/ And it wasn't just us who observed this either, loads of people on the official forums said the same, including a guy who used to lead a top-50 GvG guild back in GW1.

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Malawi Frontier Guard's Avatar
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    This is a fun engineer build: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz_49j-ziKo

    Even if you can't hit your burst, sniping from a ledge will never get old.

  18. #18
    Lesser Hivemind Node apricotsoup's Avatar
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    Had a lot of fun running around in pvp as a full on wand/focus conditionmancer yesterday.

    The combination of survivability and bleed damage output made a mess of quite a few enemies and in the first game I joined a little way into the action and easily got to top kills, top resurrects and top objectives held. Didn't die once during that game oO

    But these are obviously still very much nub levels of play.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Sounds awesome! I've not tried the necromancer in PvP yet but having a second health bar makes them so tough.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to battleground pvp as much as I am WvWvW. I played alot of rated battleground in WoW and it was quite a frustrating experience at times (pve balance and pvp balance do not sit well together). GW2 has been built from the ground up with pvp balance in mind so I'm really hyped for it.

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