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  1. #41
    Lesser Hivemind Node RobF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    I've been always saying, any game with development cycle longer than 2 years can't be good.
    You must hate all the games.
    My actions are in no way born out of some sort of Darwinist offensive
    I just get a bit fidgety times

  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    You must hate all the games.
    CoD and Madden fit his criteria. I think that's probably it.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    If they were doing a good job they wouldn't have been replaced.
    it depends who's taking that decision. if its a publisher who thinks "We can really only focus on action and shooter titles"
    then it's at least reason to raise some eyebrows.

  4. #44
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    Hope the game recover from these troubles. Is still the number 1 game I am looking forward too.

  5. #45
    Lesser Hivemind Node agentorange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peschiNL View Post
    it depends who's taking that decision. if its a publisher who thinks "We can really only focus on action and shooter titles"
    then it's at least reason to raise some eyebrows.
    Well, Infinite is ​an action shooter title.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    You must hate all the games.
    You must've been gaming only since 2008.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentorange View Post
    Well, Infinite is ​an action shooter title.
    with no RPG elements, I agree.

  8. #48
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    You must've been gaming only since 2008.
    You must have missed the various examples that were given which are pre-2008.
    - If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -

  9. #49
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    You must've confused them with good games.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    CoD and Madden fit his criteria. I think that's probably it.
    There's Dragon Age 2 as well, that's totally an awesome game as well.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    If they were doing a good job they wouldn't have been replaced.


    They were being ambitious, if you've ever had to do a long project that has ambitious goals you would understand why thats a pretty crappy way to think about it!

  12. #52
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    You must've confused them with good games.
    Yeah, because games with both a combined Metacritic and user critic score of 8.x or 9.x are the absolute opposite of "good". You can stomp your feet as hard as you want, but it seems the majority of the internet disagrees with you.
    - If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Considering Ken Levine has said things like "“Scott Sinclair, art director of Bio1, back in the art director’s chair for Infinite to bring it home. Can’t wait to show you what’s cooking.” about it I'm going to stick with my "you are all wrong" stance.

  14. #54
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    They were being ambitious, if you've ever had to do a long project that has ambitious goals you would understand why thats a pretty crappy way to think about it![/COLOR]
    And LA Noir is an example of why it is a GOOD way to think about that. Look at all the disasters that surrounded it. It basically boiled down to a "visionary" development team who had no idea how to do time management and had a bunch of awesome ideas that didn't necessarily translate well to a good game.

    Or look at Obsidian. Many of their games have suffered from poor time management skills. They work their asses off on some REALLY awesome innovative crap, but they fail to finish the actual core game. And no matter what excuse you might want to give them, the first rule of any project is "Make it work, then make it better".

    Is this a case of directionless fund-wasting? No idea, I haven't followed the Bioshock development. But if the team was replaced, there is generally a good reason. And considering that Bioshock is meant to be an "artsy" game as it were, I imagine they would be given a LOT of leeway.
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  15. #55
    Network Hub orcane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Or look at Obsidian. Many of their games have suffered from poor time management skills.
    Yeah, no. A publisher going "hey guise drop all you're doing we ship this by xmas" is not "poor time management skills". And most of their games' cores work fine (it's usually the "make it better" part that had to be sacrificed towards the end), so I'd like some of those drugs you are having.
    Stealth Mode!

  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    I agree with LA Noire that was run by a very horrible guy but well you will always get that, Obsidian maybe but I don't know could be publishers fault could be the companies fault....

  17. #57
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    Speculation is bullshit. Next.

  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orcane View Post
    Yeah, no. A publisher going "hey guise drop all you're doing we ship this by xmas" is not "poor time management skills". And most of their games' cores work fine (it's usually the "make it better" part that had to be sacrificed towards the end), so I'd like some of those drugs you are having.
    KOTOR 2 injected in between my toes
    Alpha Protocol snorted out of the naval of a hawaiin boy
    There is also an argument for the Neverwinter Nights 2 I baked into a brownie

    And for good measure, the buggy mess that was New Vegas at launch :p

    I'm just gonna say this: Most devs get screwed on deadlines, especially when they are under contract with a publisher. Most games don't feel like the last third is missing.
    KOTOR 2 was definitely missing the last third or so. Alpha Protocol they did a better job on (in terms of finishing the main plot), but the core game mechanics were very clunky and unpolished. NWN2 also takes a nose dive in the last hour or two, but to nowhere near the degree that KOTOR 2 did. Also, I loved NWN2, and they did manage to make an amazing expansion pack, even if that was also rough around the edges.

    I love Obsidian and am always looking forward to every title they work on (I just won't buy it until I know it is finished :p). But they get "screwed by the publisher" on just about every game they make. And if this were any other dev, the community would be asking some very hard questions.

    So rather than assume the various publishers just REALLY hate Obsidian, I instead assume that Obsidian are AMAZING idea people, but need a lot of work on the execution and development aspects (specifically, time management and what to prioritize).
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  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    But even as getting screwed so many times,they make very good games,buggy indeed,but still good.

  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Oh, no doubt there. My point isn't that they suck. I love Obsidian, even if I cringe every time I find out they are making a new game that I will want and be disappointed by :p. My point is just that they are a dev team that would benefit GREATLY from some outside influence. They have amazing ideas, they just need someone to help them prioritize stuff so that they can have a quality and COMPLETE game by the deadlines.
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