Company of Heroes 1

[FriendlyFire]

They have a mechanic whereby a "hit" will always hit no matter what (you sometimes see that as a shell shot that bends to hit the target), but a "miss" can still hit because all trajectories are simulated. It also means your unit could hit something that it wasn't meant to.

Starcraft/Warcraft use something much more deterministic, where units are either area of effect or hitscan. Even units with slow moving projectiles won't actually miss a shot or hit another target unless the shot is area of effect, like for say siege tanks. DPS is also fixed and calculated through simple soft/hard counters with % bonuses or reductions, whereas CoH and DoW introduce some measure of variability and also full invulnerability. Try as you might, you'll never kill a tank with small arms in CoH, but massed marines can easily kill a tank in SC.

Those are all things that aren't very well regarded by "pro" players. Always keep in mind that the Brood Wars scene is still very much active despite the release of SC2 specifically because the players there don't like change, and that's going from game A to game A revision 2. Imagine going to CoH or DoW.

[Moraven]

The last OSL is over and the last Proleague (which is a hybrid of BW/SC2) is finishing up. After that there will be no more BW scene really.

[Nalano]

Those are all things that aren't very well regarded by "pro" players.

I've noticed similar, and it makes me wonder if they would prefer accounting over gaming. I'm definitely more of an "any given Sunday" kind of player, but if you're jonesing for for predictability, that's your Achilles heel.

[FriendlyFire]

Note that I put "pro" in quotes. I don't particularly like the movement towards "EVERYTHING must have a pro scene", because pro gamers tend to be a pain. They're ridiculous min-maxers, which means that they'll often wreck balance for everyone BUT the top level (I have serious doubts a game can be balanced for all levels of skill at the same time), they tend to be very volatile, flocking to a game for X but then deciding to leave it for Y, and then all that work that went into catering them and only them gets wasted. Plus, they're often jerks (or is it just that they're representative of the playerbase?) with an inflated ego and a loud mouth.

I am quite honestly glad that CoH has a comparatively small competitive scene, as competition tends to breed a lot of dissent and trouble for a game. There's a reason SC2 is so similar to SC1.

[Mohorovicic]

The last OSL is over and the last Proleague (which is a hybrid of BW/SC2) is finishing up. After that there will be no more BW scene really.

Lies

Lies times ten

[simonp]

COH still has a healthy player base with around 5000 people online at peak times, it's easy to get a game still.
A lot of the good players have quit but unless you're playing at the very top level that's not a problem. Gamereplays.org is still the main gathering spot for the more serious players. It holds up amazingly for such an old game.

[DaftPunk]

I have anthology but i couldn't complete all of the campaigns,they get repetitive after some time,i was very near completing USA campaign and Britain. Otherwise can't wait for COH2.

[Hunchback]

I am considering buying CoH2 asap, to be honest. When's the release date anyways?

[Moraven]

Lies

Lies times ten

People will play it like they still do Counterstrike, but in the sense of a pro competitive scene that is being broadcasted, there is nothing major left. All the KESPA pros will be playing SC2.

[Moraven]

I am considering buying CoH2 asap, to be honest. When's the release date anyways?

Their press release announcing the game says 2013. Here is hoping.

[Hunchback]

Shit! 2013! WTF, that's like FUCKING FAR!? omg omg, i want it NAO!!!1

[DaftPunk]

Shit! 2013! WTF, that's like FUCKING FAR!? omg omg, i want it NAO!!!1

Are you serious,thats not that far away,some games takes twice as that to be made :D

[Hunchback]

Well i still want it NAO!

[victory]

I've noticed similar, and it makes me wonder if they would prefer accounting over gaming. I'm definitely more of an "any given Sunday" kind of player, but if you're jonesing for for predictability, that's your Achilles heel.

RTSs with fog of war already have a large amount of uncertainty and randomness of outcome without luck being explicitly added via mechanics.

Unpredictability is what makes real-world strategy work boring 99% of the time. When you can't count on things, you have to spend a lot of fruitless effort preparing for risks which never materialize, be massively redundant, and keep your plans simple. There's little place for clever or complicated plans. I would generally prefer deeper strategy in my games to having more randomness.

[Nalano]

Unpredictability is what makes real-world strategy work boring 99% of the time.

Oh man! You had me going that you were serious​ for a second.

[Casimir Effect]

Ah, it's the hint of randomness that makes something fun to watch. That's why it's a crying shame that a game like CoH isn't bigger in the competitive scene. I enjoy watching the GameReplays stuff for it, in fact it's about the only game I enjoy watching (Althoug the good commentary helps a lot too). Starcraft 2 just always seems so dull and paint-by-numbers. In terms of watching, the scale of CoH is far better as well. The manpower limit means there can never be too much on the field, in fact as a viewer you can usually keep track of the units as the match plays.

As for unpredictability being what makes real-world strategy boring, that's insane. Unpredictability is what has allowed smaller nations to defeat far bigger powers over the years. It's another facet of leadership, and most of the great leaders throughout history have exhibited it in some way. From what I gather the game Ruse showed this off very well, although I haven't played it myself.

[Heliocentric]

Oh man! You had me going that you were serious​ for a second.

Word, that guy is not interested in strategy. He just likes clicking on mans. Strategy, is ambushes, danger close artillery, desperate gambits and backup plans, deploying sandbags and wire to tweak the definition of the environment. It's not memorisation of build queues, not ever.
When the paper thin armoured tank gets past their "hard counter" and starts killing the gunners from behind you realise why mines, tank traps and/or backup guns were so critical.

We need a Dove soap style "campaign for real strategy".

[Nalano]

Word, that guy is not interested in strategy. He just likes clicking on mans. Strategy, is ambushes, danger close artillery, desperate gambits and backup plans, deploying sandbags and wire to tweak the definition of the environment. It's not memorisation of build queues, not ever.
When the paper thin armoured tank gets past their "hard counter" and starts killing the gunners from behind you realise why mines, tank traps and/or backup guns were so critical.

We need a Dove soap style "campaign for real strategy".

We need to tell all the great generals, marshals and strategists in history that their whole shit wasn't interesting or useful because sometimes people miss.

[Heliocentric]

We need to tell all the great generals, marshals and strategists in history that their whole shit wasn't interesting or useful because sometimes people miss.

Buh? Are you sassing me some?

I can't tell.

[Nalano]

Buh? Are you sassing me some?

I can't tell.

And I quote,

There's little place for clever or complicated plans.