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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Syrian Civil War

    So, you guys ever check the news? Or YouTube? It's flooded with videos, including the usual allahuackbar/beheading/defenestration/execution/masturbation in front of the camera/IED stuff done by rebels. But, apparently, it's all good since they are fighting the bad people. Is it okay? I mean, you do support them through your so-called 'free media'( that is now basically a Rebels propaganda wing) and through Turkey( it's still in NATO, right?). You guys are comfortable with all this? Can you still play Jagged Alliance 2?

    More importantly, whos next after Assad? I have a feeling things are snowballing and this is nearly not the end. There are reports of Libyan rebels fighting together with Syrian ones. All those people with weapons, explosives and shakhadas, are they just going to trade their kit for pitchforks and become farmers?
    Last edited by coldvvvave; 16-08-2012 at 12:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    The thing is every time theres something saying "oh it will be done in 2 months max" they are always wrong the government seems able to fight they aren't weak like the media tells you to. Also well its probably not as black and white yes dictorships should go and i agree with the rebels idea but there to disconnected from each other to scattered to many groups...maybe with Libya there was one main goal really with this its several goals from several different people which can cause stability.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    All those people with weapons, explosives and shakhadas, are they just going to trade their kit for pitchforks and become farmers?
    It's what happened in Libya.

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Something about opressed and oppressors? Or one man's terrorist/freedom fighter?

    I have no idea about the truth of these countries conditions and the ensuing conflict despite reading newspapers and watching news on TV.

    Finding about what reality TV stars are drunk is easy though.
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  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Dude. coldvvvave.

    Civil wars aren't civil.

    This is why revolution is and should always be a last resort (despite what Tea Partiers and other eccentric "radicals" say.)
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Dude. coldvvvave.

    Civil wars aren't civil.
    I know, but in Syria( and Libiya) jihadists are not just icing on the cake, they are either hijacking this revolution, or were at the core of it from the beginning. I'd have no problem with Syrians ousting Assad, he isn't my friend. I can sleep at night without our naval base there or dictators buying our Hinds. What I'm worried about is our own little Muslim backyard, both the moderate part and the other, more violent one. This explosion of religious violence isn't just going to calm down, I thought the biggest example of arming and training religious fanatics backfired and no one wanted to repeat the same thing again.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    I know, but in Syria( and Libiya) jihadists are not just icing on the cake, they are either hijacking this revolution, or were at the core of it from the beginning. I'd have no problem with Syrians ousting Assad, he isn't my friend. I can sleep at night without our naval base there or dictators buying our Hinds. What I'm worried about is our own little Muslim backyard, both the moderate part and the other, more violent one. This explosion of religious violence isn't just going to calm down, I thought the biggest example of arming and training religious fanatics backfired and no one wanted to repeat the same thing again.
    9_9

    Radical situations make for radical fighters. Religious nutjobs make inroads when people feel that they have no other choices available to them. Terrorist organizations thrive when people feel that they have no other choices available to them. When the choice is kill you or die, no offense, I'm going to kill you.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    9_9

    Radical situations make for radical fighters. Religious nutjobs make inroads when people feel that they have no other choices available to them. Terrorist organizations thrive when people feel that they have no other choices available to them. When the choice is kill you or die, no offense, I'm going to kill you.
    Whats your point? I know all that, it's all pretty obvious.


    Except for the last part, what'd you do, throw Cisco switch at me?

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    Whats your point? I know all that, it's all pretty obvious.


    Except for the last part, what'd you do, throw Cisco switch at me?
    I'm wondering what exactly you expect us to do about this. It's the latest in a long line of Arab revolts, and the only nations that actually want to get involved are Turkey for obvious reasons and Russia because Syria's their last ally in the Middle East.
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  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    So... whos winning?

    Aleppo and Homs are still contested. Both sides are claiming various successes but it isn't very clear.

    Assad recently played the religion card( some pro-state cleric announced some fatwah or something) so some say he is desperate, but they say it for years now. Meanwhile NATO promised to arm rebels with "nonlethal" stuff( nonlethal takedown is always the most silent takedown) while some sources( and I'm not talking about SANA, RT or ANNA) claim that NATO advisors are already training rebels in Quatar. Also I heard calls for arming rebels with actual hardware.

    So the situation... I don't know what's going on. There are some informed people here and there but usually they are a bit biased and only mention what fits their view of this conflict. Basically the pro-rebel guys go to the "activists" twitter and repost whatever they say. Pro-government bloggers repost ANNA videos.

    By the way about ANNA. Some call it a front for Russian GRU psyops or something. Or they are paid by Assad. Or both. All because they have funding and one of the guys is a former GRU operative. Apparently five or six people with couple of cameras and notebooks are all what Assad and GRU could come up with. They call each other by names, have blogs and don't conceal their faces, also their videos usually don't have subtitles. What a great psyop.

    Ukrainian pro-government blogger who got captured half a year ago by some of the rebel groups escaped by herself, reportedly. At some point in captivity she gave a statement that she worked with both SAA intilligence and GRU. I wonder if she'll deny it now.
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  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    Ukrainian pro-government blogger who got captured half a year ago by some of the rebel groups escaped by herself, reportedly. At some point in captivity she gave a statement that she worked with both SAA intilligence and GRU. I wonder if she'll deny it now.
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  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    I still recall one episode of last (3rd) season of American TV drama "The Good Wife" about a law suit over use of an American data mining software leading to arrest and subsequent death of a protestant in Syria. One year has passed and the war is still not resolved. I don't understand what the westerners are waiting for. All the media coverage and they just sit back and fxxking watch.

    Months ago Syrian government forces fired some shells into Israeli territory in the hope of triggering a world war...... just for those corrupted leaders to remain in power. I don't understand why scums of the earth wont be burnt in hell.

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    So the situation... I don't know what's going on. There are some informed people here and there but usually they are a bit biased and only mention what fits their view of this conflict. Basically the pro-rebel guys go to the "activists" twitter and repost whatever they say. Pro-government bloggers repost ANNA videos.
    America doesn't want in, because the American people are sick of intervention in the region, so their direct influence is mostly sanctions against the government and sternly-worded statements. The UN is sending in humanitarian aid, but most of it only reaches the hands of the government.

    Russia still wants Assad to win, because Russia's interests in the region are tied solely to Syria.

    Unlike Libya, the rebels do not have heavy weaponry or air support, so they are not going to win the war without intervention. Saudi Arabia recently gave them small arms - with America's blessing - which will serve only to prolong the conflict.

    Turkey still wants to intervene on the border, but will not do so without NATO (American) support.

    Jordan and Lebanon are receiving a lot of refugees. Israel cares only about Israel.

    The free world wants the rebels to win, but their reticence at offering material assistance - thanks to war-weariness, austere economic policies and general lack of concern for the well-being of Arab citizens - is allowing extremists to color the rebels' policies.
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  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    America doesn't want in, because the American people are sick of intervention in the region, so their direct influence is mostly sanctions against the government and sternly-worded statements. The UN is sending in humanitarian aid, but most of it only reaches the hands of the government.
    They also probably don't want China and Russia ganging up on them about something or even an out war with those two.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    They also probably don't want China and Russia ganging up on them about something or even an out war with those two.
    The likelihood of that is pretty much nil. China doesn't care and Russia still needs European markets for their gas.
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  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    China does seem to care because they with Russia seem to be the only two countries blocking anything that the UN tries to do with Syria.

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    America doesn't want in, because the American people are sick of intervention in the region, so their direct influence is mostly sanctions against the government and sternly-worded statements. The UN is sending in humanitarian aid, but most of it only reaches the hands of the government.

    Russia still wants Assad to win, because Russia's interests in the region are tied solely to Syria.

    Unlike Libya, the rebels do not have heavy weaponry or air support, so they are not going to win the war without intervention. Saudi Arabia recently gave them small arms - with America's blessing - which will serve only to prolong the conflict.

    Turkey still wants to intervene on the border, but will not do so without NATO (American) support.

    Jordan and Lebanon are receiving a lot of refugees. Israel cares only about Israel.
    I think you left Iran and Hizbolla out. Also Kurds.
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  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    China does seem to care because they with Russia seem to be the only two countries blocking anything that the UN tries to do with Syria.
    China wants the status quo because they're making money off the status quo. It's hard to invest when there's a revolution going on every three minutes. That's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    I think you left Iran and Hizbolla out. Also Kurds.
    Hezbollah. And I'm not fucking CNN. Read a newspaper.
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  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    And I'm not fucking CNN. Read a newspaper.
    I know the general situation, what I want to know is how the actual war going on. Right now there is no independent war journalism in Syria( foreign or local), of course everyone blames Assad for this but surely if there were actual news crews on the ground they'd be affiliated with some FSA unit like that Aljazeera guy who got shot few months back.

    I'm currently reading this, heard its good and up to date analysis.

    http://www.understandingwar.org/site...Regime-web.pdf
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  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    I heard there is going to be some kind of rally in LA tomorrow, two rallies acually one pro- and one anti-government. I also heard last year it ened in a brawl. Would be intersting if someone who lives there confirmed.
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