Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 221 to 240 of 295
  1. #221
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    769
    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Oh I agree, I'm just pointing out that the people mindlessly shouting "Go rebels!" apparently don't know what's really going on.
    Siding mindlessly with anyone in any conflict is dumb, of course. It's not black and white, it's all shades of bullshit and misery.

    Btw, your avatar is depressingly appropriate in this particular thread, is it not.

  2. #222
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Terra Australis Incognita
    Posts
    4,502
    Quote Originally Posted by mouton View Post
    Btw, your avatar is depressingly appropriate in this particular thread, is it not.
    There's one way out of this city...
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  3. #223
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,718
    This is what you get for inviting al Qaeda into your country:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/12/wo...html?hpt=hp_t3

  4. #224
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    769
    jihadists gonna jihad

    Hopefully, the less crazy rebels win and become less sectarian overall.

  5. #225
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,890
    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    This is what you get for inviting al Qaeda into your country:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/12/wo...html?hpt=hp_t3
    There have already been constant reports of rebels of all stripes using women and children as target practice.

    E.g. many injuries from one district in a day being all pregnant women, then the next day having all people with groin injuries from sniper bullets.
    Quote Originally Posted by mouton View Post
    jihadists gonna jihad

    Hopefully, the less crazy rebels win and become less sectarian overall.
    There's over 30 different factions involved, I don't think that's possible.

    Destablizing the governments of the Middle East is still the West pushing for more control over the area. Israel is the West's only untouchable ally.

  6. #226
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fanbuoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    The Capital of Scandinavia
    Posts
    1,139
    Quote Originally Posted by rockman29 View Post
    There have already been constant reports of rebels of all stripes using women and children as target practice.

    E.g. many injuries from one district in a day being all pregnant women, then the next day having all people with groin injuries from sniper bullets.
    I saw that as well, but I haven't heard the rebels being accused of doing it. Looking around a bit, I found sources either blaming the regime or not saying anything. Sure, most news outlets (in the west at least) are quite heavily in favour of the rebels, but I don't think that they have any interest in skewing the information in that way.

    Destablizing the governments of the Middle East is still the West pushing for more control over the area. Israel is the West's only untouchable ally.
    The only ones who stand to gain from a destabilized Middle East are extremists, warlords and the like. What the rest of the world wants from the region is a steady and reliable supply of oil. A region in turmoil is bad for business. "The West" is not a unified force of neo-colonialism pushing an evil agenda of world domination. There are separate entities with separate policies. It's politics, and that is not isolated to Europe and America. Granted, the destabilization is to a large degree due to western influence, but not from government conspiracies.

    As for Israel being "the West's only untouchable ally", that isn't really true, is it? They're the most natural ally, being the most westernized and most culturally similar. However, sentiments here are pretty anti-Israelite atm (not anti-Semite, mind you). N.B. I'm not speaking for "the West", but the Swedish media and people. The Swedish government has adopted a policy of neutrality to all parties.

  7. #227
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    5,332
    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    As for Israel being "the West's only untouchable ally", that isn't really true, is it? They're the most natural ally, being the most westernized and most culturally similar. However, sentiments here are pretty anti-Israelite atm (not anti-Semite, mind you). N.B. I'm not speaking for "the West", but the Swedish media and people. The Swedish government has adopted a policy of neutrality to all parties.
    Even the US, Israel's staunchest "ally" have largely been leaving them out to dry as of late. Hell, just look at the Iran nukes issue: Basically all the US has done is ineffectually wag their finger at Iran while trying to keep Israel from taking any form of action (admittedly, that might be a good idea...).

    Because it is just like you said: Religion, ideology, preferred headscarf pattern? Doesn't matter. What matters is who provides the most stable source of vroom vroom juice.
    Steam: Gundato
    PSN: Gundato
    If you want me on either service, I suggest PMing me here first to let me know who you are.

  8. #228
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Holland
    Posts
    1,574
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Religion, ideology, preferred headscarf pattern? Doesn't matter. What matters is who provides the most stable source of vroom vroom juice.
    Right, there's this great line in the movie Syriana which alludes to that, and goes something like: "You know what the business world thinks of you? We think 100 years ago you were living in tents, chopping each other's heads off, and that's exactly where you'll be in another 100." Once the oil becomes unimportant, either because it's too expensive, gone, or no longer needed, the Middle East will probably be about as relevant as the Congo is today.
    "He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to
    the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free". ~
    Luke 4:18

  9. #229
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    769
    Quote Originally Posted by Tritagonist View Post
    Right, there's this great line in the movie Syriana which alludes to that, and goes something like: "You know what the business world thinks of you? We think 100 years ago you were living in tents, chopping each other's heads off, and that's exactly where you'll be in another 100." Once the oil becomes unimportant, either because it's too expensive, gone, or no longer needed, the Middle East will probably be about as relevant as the Congo is today.
    Middle East is much closer to Europe and instability there harms the West in many more ways.

  10. #230
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Holland
    Posts
    1,574
    Quote Originally Posted by mouton View Post
    Middle East is much closer to Europe and instability there harms the West in many more ways.
    It does now, because of the economic interests. As the American comic Jon Steward once quipped: 'If America leads a blessed life, then why did God put all of our oil under people who hate us?'

    Once that era comes to an end, though, why would anybody in Europe, Russia, India, China, Japan, Brazil, the United States, and what have you, ever again care about which Arabic tribe is in charge of Bahrain or Yemen or parts of Iraq? Ayman al-Zawahiri may fancy himself quite the warlord, but he is no Suleiman.
    "He has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to
    the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free". ~
    Luke 4:18

  11. #231
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    769
    Quote Originally Posted by Tritagonist View Post
    It does now, because of the economic interests. As the American comic Jon Steward once quipped: 'If America leads a blessed life, then why did God put all of our oil under people who hate us?'

    Once that era comes to an end, though, why would anybody in Europe, Russia, India, China, Japan, Brazil, the United States, and what have you, ever again care about which Arabic tribe is in charge of Bahrain or Yemen or parts of Iraq? Ayman al-Zawahiri may fancy himself quite the warlord, but he is no Suleiman.
    Suez, piracy, immigrants, destabilizing closer countries like Turkey and Greece, negative influence on millions of Arab expats, continuing nuclear issues.

    It will lose significance and rightfully so. But it won't be blackholed like most of Africa.

  12. #232
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus rockman29's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,890
    The only ones who stand to gain from a destabilized Middle East are extremists, warlords and the like. What the rest of the world wants from the region is a steady and reliable supply of oil. A region in turmoil is bad for business. "The West" is not a unified force of neo-colonialism pushing an evil agenda of world domination. There are separate entities with separate policies. It's politics, and that is not isolated to Europe and America. Granted, the destabilization is to a large degree due to western influence, but not from government conspiracies.
    There are Western interests that benefit. All the multinational corporations that entered Iraq... Chinese, American, other oil companies. Large security firms that would just love to spend tons of time guarding those pipes, instead of people. Even the IMF I'm sure would just love to have a "democracy" in these countries. They can lend that money all day, every day, and make oodles of profit into the "rebuilding" of the country's there I'm sure.

    And yea, there is a lot of reason to care less and less about the region. Iran's new leader being so cooperative with the US, surprisingly so. Energy independence becoming a closer and closer reality for the US. There are other countries to get oil from, namely Venezuela, or USA itself. Shale gas is becoming a larger topic, being found in a new site probably every day over the entire country. USA feels so confident about it's energy stability today anyway, they are even willing to avoid rich oil supply directly from Canada, a neighbour country.

    Destabilization of the Middle East is not necessarily about neo-colonialism, but one big superpower (USA) and another former superpower (Russia) are quite confidently making a big mess down there. Influence and control does not necessarily have to do anything with actually being there, or colonizing, or what have you. Like others have said, it's about supply lines.

    It's a pretty easy way to destroy the "competition" of development in other parts of the world. Oh, and sell every side weapons at the same time, good stuff.

    Personally, I find that people just aren't being skeptical enough about the strategies Western countries are adopting for foreign policy concerning these countries. When and when they do not intervene, is just looking significantly convenient, just as it has in the past. And it seems to me our NATO forces are doing the exact same thing they used to do, but maybe people just aren't as surprised anymore. I'd have hoped that humanitarian aid would become a larger focus of the world's military purposes, but I guess that's not going to happen really.
    As for Israel being "the West's only untouchable ally", that isn't really true, is it? They're the most natural ally, being the most westernized and most culturally similar. However, sentiments here are pretty anti-Israelite atm (not anti-Semite, mind you).
    Is it that off the mark, though?

    Yes, people could read into "snubbing of Israel in nuclear talks" (Israel's ego is hurt? OK, and?) more and more. Just like people could read into "Oh merkel is mad at Obama" for phone snooping. Are these things going to actually matter? I doubt these things drastically change policy. Israel, yea you can describe it as a "staunch ally" or "natural ally" or "untouchable ally," what's the difference? They aren't going to really do anything to damage one another.

    I mean, I really have nothing against Israel. I'm only annoyed at the entire situation about the Middle East, so much going wrong. The people have so little. The only way this whole crap is stopping down there imo is if everyone finally realizes "hey shooting and bombing each other isn't really helping" and they just effing stop you know?
    Last edited by rockman29; 18-01-2014 at 09:12 PM.

  13. #233
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Vienna, Austria
    Posts
    6,889
    Im pretty sure China runs the world already, though.

    Also, the Israeli government seems like a bag of dicks. Havent been following any changes in their politics, but atleast from the recent past, they have had just the worst foreign policy.

    And its not hard to hate israel, no matter what religion they follow.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  14. #234
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    1,711
    Every time this conflict brings me laughs I feel progressively worse about myself as this is a terrible thing, really... but now rebels appointed the new voice/leader of the moderate opposition and his name is Jihad! I know it shouldn't be funny and isn't for people who are there, it's a common name and there is war etc etc but goddamnit...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad_Makdissi
    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    You are an enemy of gaming.

  15. #235
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,718
    Global Defense Initiative, GDI, that will the solution to all those issue.

    China's position is really irrelevant here. If the west wants to move in, it moves in. Isn't that what the Yankees did to Iraq in 2003? If the UN doesn't have its own military, what would its Security Council's resolutions be matter to any of such critical situations?
    Last edited by squirrel; 20-01-2014 at 01:09 PM.

  16. #236
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,341
    Global Defense Initiative, GDI, that will the solution to all those issue.


    No they need the leadership of Kane!

    This conflict doesn't seem to be going away or stopping anytime soon.

    Isn't that what the Yankees did to Iraq in 2003?


    China didn't care about Iraq neither did the Russians and they didn't care about Afganistan either, if they did I think the Americans wouldn't have gone in.

  17. #237
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    5,332
    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    China's position is really irrelevant here. If the west wants to move in, it moves in. Isn't that what the Yankees did to Iraq in 2003? If the UN doesn't have its own military, what would its Security Council's resolutions be matter to any of such critical situations?
    Wrong and on the right track, respectively

    The UN is basically "the popular kids" in high school. All they can really do is shun people. So if a nation just doesn't give a fuck, the UN is pretty limited as they will have to convince everyone (or at least enough people) to go beat up/be mean to the kid (war and sanctions, respectively). That is what happened with Iraq. It was fairly unanimous among the western nations that SOMETHING had to be done because Iraq was completely ignoring sanctions and inspectors. Where people differed was on WHAT should be done

    Then you have Iran and the North Koreans. They have the backing of nations with some actual strength (Russia and China). So if the UN says "Fuck it, let's waste them FOR THE GREATER GOOD!!!" there is a significant chance of Russia and China saying "... oh no you di'nt!" and getting involved, and nobody wants that. It is the Cold War on a MUCH smaller scale. Similarly, see Israel where they both can't attack (the US and their "allies" will probably abandon them) and can't BE attacked (they sort of have the US and other "allies").

    So the UN itself can't do anything. Sure they have the blue helmetted mercs (who tend to just commit atrocities and war crimes wherever they go, but that is a different discussion entirely...), but their primary military force are the militaries of the world. So if no superpower wants to get involved, they can't do much. And those superpowers either don't want to get involved because they have other problems or because they are afraid of the OTHER superpowers who will get involved.
    Steam: Gundato
    PSN: Gundato
    If you want me on either service, I suggest PMing me here first to let me know who you are.

  18. #238
    Lesser Hivemind Node Wheelz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Posts
    523
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    So the UN itself can't do anything. Sure they have the blue helmetted mercs (who tend to just commit atrocities and war crimes wherever they go, but that is a different discussion entirely...)
    That was a very blunt throw-away comment. Not saying you're wrong, but I'd certainly like to see some evidence/citations for it.

  19. #239
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    5,332
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelz View Post
    That was a very blunt throw-away comment. Not saying you're wrong, but I'd certainly like to see some evidence/citations for it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critici..._abuse_scandal for wiki

    Beyond that: just google "UN peacekeepr scandal" and check whatever news site you trust/"trust" the most.
    Steam: Gundato
    PSN: Gundato
    If you want me on either service, I suggest PMing me here first to let me know who you are.

  20. #240
    Lesser Hivemind Node
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    769
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    So the UN itself can't do anything. Sure they have the blue helmetted mercs (who tend to just commit atrocities and war crimes wherever they go, but that is a different discussion entirely...)
    Well, armies are in general prone to committing atrocities and war crimes wherever they go, especially if they have complete control over the place. The UN is inefficient and partially rotten, but its forces can and do serve useful roles in many locations around the world. Even some degree of crimes committed is a lesser evil compared to what would have usually happened if the place in question was run by warlords, militias or had armies of two enemy nations facing each other.
    Last edited by mouton; 21-01-2014 at 04:50 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •