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  1. #61
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    What type of DVI output do the graphics cards have? FYI

    DVI-D (digital only) - converters from DVI to VGA won't work with this.
    DVI-A (analog only)
    DVI-I (digital and analog)

  2. #62
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    OK, here's the point where I am a thicko. How can I identify this? The bottom line is that the outputs on the back of the GTX670 looked exactly the same as the ones on the 8800GT, which work fine. After a quick look, I *think* they both have DVI-I Dual Link ports and that secondary one.. is that DVI-D? Maybe I'm wrong. I don't believe so, but hmm.

    OK.. OK. I've just had a look at the adapter and the pins look like DVI-A.. So if the monitor only has an input for VGA, and the adapter seems to be one for DVI-A - even if it's plugged into a DVI-I dual style 'socket' on the GPU card.. would that explain this whole damned mess? If so, what can I do about it - can I get a DVI-D converter for a VGA input cable on this monitor? I've just realised this could be me being very stupid if that's so. On the other hand, is that a faint glimmer of hope I have? I'm not entirey sure, because I do seem to recall trying the different converter at one point that came with the card. Who can say now? The adapters look exactly the same, right? Same symbol on etc?

  3. #63
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    I wonder if I should be telling ebuyer that I do want that card after all..

  4. #64
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    A lot of the adaptors look the same, you can find images on the first page of google images for DVI. The best place to look to find out what type your card is using is in the cards documentation. Whatever brand of GTX 670 and 8800GT you have will have documented what type of DVI connection they've used. Some of the cards even have it stamped on the face plate.

    In answer to going from DVI-D to VGA, you can't do it with a traditional adaptor which just connects the pins properly, like the one you have, but you need a much more expensive version, which converts the signal as well. These can cost over $100.

  5. #65
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    It's HIGHLY unlikely a GPU would be DVI-D - that's pretty much designed for 'media' components and not PCs

    I always thought 'analog' were the 4 pins around the single 'flat' pin to one side of the plug socket - e.g. if they're there, the cable/socket supports Analog - if they're not (it's just a slot socket or flat pin) it's a digital-only socket/plug.

    All the GTX670s I looked at offer DVI-I+DVI-D - although which socket that is/whether it's switchable in the driver or even on the GPU itself I've no idea.

    Also - do you realise how SHIT the image you're getting is through a DVI-VGA adaptor!! I cannot even being to imagine owning a decent GPU and plugging it into a VGA socket - esp when a really decent monitor is not much more than 100 these days...

    My 'old' PC is connected that way (as I only have 1 digital and 1 analog on this monitor) and it's like putting cream on the screen when I switch-over...

  6. #66
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    OK - the card is being sent back to me by ebuyer, so we'll just have to see.

    When I get it back, I'll take some pictures of connections and so on. I have to say I simply don't understand why it's not working. I also don't get why it wouldn't work with this monitor when it works 100% perfectly with my current/old system.

    It's a LG W2242S 22" TFT Monitor 1680x1050 8000:1 300cd/m2 5ms VGA, and is about 4 years old. So.. I struggle to see why a GPU, even new, would not be compatible with it. I also find it fundamentally hard to understand the idea that it could be a problem with the motherboard or CPU when it boots up 100% ok - the display simply won't work. The card acts like it's dead but for the fan. The old GPU, when fitted into the new MOBO, will display on this monitor just fine. So in principle, the MOBO slot does at least work in some way. If everything else seems to work as it should, surely it can only be something a bit weird? Maybe the PSU is broken, but I am struggling to see what can be wrong in truth, despite all the discourse on here - for which I am grateful! I just wish I could get the bloody thing working now.

  7. #67
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    The issue here is you have no idea if the problem is

    a - faulty card/mobo-to-card incompatibility (install it in another PC to test this - if card works in another PC, card isn't faulty)
    b - power supply issue (again, testing in another PC would narrow this - but changing the PSU in your PC is required to be sure)
    c - a driver issue (if you get no BIOS/POST/startup info on your monitor it's probably not a driver issue - you could also try a Linux bootable DVD to see if that works)
    d - a cable/VGA adaptor issue (ideally you'd want to test your PC/this card on a proper DVI-capable device and/or with another cable/adaptor - remember you can get a DVI-HDMI cable and test it on your TV, for example)

    The fan spinning on the GPU doesn't mean there still isn't a power issue BTW - making a fan turn requires a tiny amount of the power that a whole GPU needs.

    If the card works in your other PC - and moving the other PC's PSU into your PC and testing it DOESN'T work - then you know it's your PC which is at fault tho. If it DOES work - leave the PSUs that way around and/or buy a new PSU!?

  8. #68
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I'm in no way trying to offend here, but your posts are becoming more and more confusing to read TheRed. I can't tell what combinations of what we've listed here that you've tried or not. I've no idea what variables have been tested together and it reads like you haven't tried the full combination of some of them. It reads like you're just trying to guess or trying to say "oh it can't be this because ..."


    Example
    When I get it back, I'll take some pictures of connections and so on. I have to say I simply don't understand why it's not working. I also don't get why it wouldn't work with this monitor when it works 100% perfectly with my current/old system.
    What does this mean? What works 100% with the current and old system? A monitor? A graphics card? One or the other?

    You just absolutely have to sit down and test all the combinations and record the results and then if it still doesn't work, post those results, but please make it as clear as possible because it's getting confusing and I'm having to read back over pages to try figure out what you're actually doing.

  9. #69
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    Yeah - Jesus Phish's comments and my earlier post are some idea of how you solve these things - you cannot eliminate anything because "it just cannot be that" because you'll end-up going around in circles...

    That said - reading everything you've written, my feeling is that you either have

    a problem with the signal that the card is generating (either refresh rate or a cabling issue)
    a compatibility issue between your mobo/card
    a problem with your PSU
    a faulty card

    The only way to find out which of those is true (if any) is to eliminate all other possibilities (whatever remains, however unlilkely, is the answer - said Sherlock Holmes!!)

    So if the new card works in your old PC with your old PSU but connected to the same VGA adaptor/cable/monitor - you can rule out the cable/monitor/card being the issue - that's the first and last one written-off.

    A compatibility issue with the mobo which is MUCH harder to resolve (read 'impossible') so we skip ahead to the PSU issue and use the PSU from your old PC (or a new PSU) in your new PC, with your new card - and if that works, well it's the PSU innit!

    If, at that point, you've had the new card working in your old PC but it's not working in your new PC - it can ONLY be your motherboard which is unhappy with the card for some reason.

    The only options there are

    1 - BIOS upgrade available?
    2 - is the PCI-EX slot you're using the right one - is it the right speed - is it setup in the BIOS correctly?
    3 - a new motherboard...
    Last edited by trjp; 13-12-2012 at 04:52 PM.

  10. #70
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    I'll be getting the card back perhaps tomorrow, so I'll try to do some more proper investigations soon. It's annoying not having the time to expedite a solution! Sorry if it's been confusing, but I've been confused at different points. I rule nothing out just because I don't understand it - just expressing my frustration! I'll be able to do some photos etc - the real issue is that I simply don't have another machine that's sensibly configured to mix and match, really. It's a lot of expensive gambling to just buy another PSU etc. We'll see.

    I appreciate the support from everyone helping!

  11. #71
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    The key thing to learn from these situations is that "the only way to solve it is to try EVERYTHING".

    When you've been doing this for years, there are some shortcuts - but when you're not in-front of the PC, you have to go through all the motions...

    I'm getting pretty good at this now - I can often solve problems from phonecalls which are "my PC is running slow" or "the Internet is off" in just a few questions, but only because I've spend DAYS going through these things before.

    The key thing tho - is 'try everything and rule out nothing' because you'd be amazed. 2 years ago I 'scrapped' a PC because it would freeze randomly and I'd tried everything to solve it. When I was breaking it, I discovered one of the SATA cable was broken inside the connector... ... ...

  12. #72
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    Yeah - I know it could be a whole host of things. The problem is, I simply don't have the capacity to have loads of different monitors, PSUs, MOBOs lying about. I'm also a bit short of time. So it becomes quite convoluted and difficult to make progress. while I still don't see how it could be the monitor when it works fine on this one, I don't rule it out. I just don't have another one! We'll see. I'll try to pick up the re-sent card this week and start again. Piece o'crap...

  13. #73
    Obscure Node sirgoit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRed View Post
    Yeah - I know it could be a whole host of things. The problem is, I simply don't have the capacity to have loads of different monitors, PSUs, MOBOs lying about. I'm also a bit short of time. So it becomes quite convoluted and difficult to make progress. while I still don't see how it could be the monitor when it works fine on this one, I don't rule it out. I just don't have another one! We'll see. I'll try to pick up the re-sent card this week and start again. Piece o'crap...
    Just to add, if you get to a point where you're pretty sure the system is booting OK but not showing anything on screen, consider installing tightvnc (or any other remote control prog) and set it up so it starts with windows and all that. If you're not super comfortable making it work just sign up to a free logmein.com account and install the client, more hoops but less technical nonsense.

    You can at least then login to the system and see what shows up in displays / Nvidia control panel (is it even detecting the monitor etc).

    As a final note I'll say I have a Hazro screen which with my card (AMD) will never show anything before windows boots. It's a known bug and there is no easy solution. Point is that monitor compatibility is not as perfect as it should be!

  14. #74
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    OK! I'm going to run through some suppositions.

    I've got the card back. Ebuyer claim it isn't faulty, so that can effectively be ruled out.

    I've ascertained, as we expected, that the monitor converter is DVI to VGA or whatever. It seems the exact same as the connection required for the 8800GT I had previously that, whilst broken in terms of hardware, still allows me to use my old machine and new machine. So it's unlikely to be the monitor too, I'd be pretty confident in saying.

    I've whacked the old GPU and Wireless card in the new machine and am typing from it currently. It's still 100% fine in terms of booting and everything is as I'd assume it should be. Please correct me again - but I imagine this must logically show, without too much doubt, that the CPU is 100% fine as far as this investigation goes.

    It also suggests - does it not - that the motherboard is fine in most ways, even if there is an underlying issue with it in relation to the GPU. The MOBO slots clearly aren't 'dead' either, if that makes sense. I also get the same response from both of the PCI slots. If I slot the new card in, once more there is just no signal. The fan spins but there's never any output on the screen at all. I'm assured that the MOBO and GPU should be compatible by the manufacturer of the MOBO.

    As such - do you think it's the first port of call to look for MOBO updates and, second, to try a new PSU completely?

    Really appreciate your help on this. I'd like to get it licked! I've actually got some time off around christmas too, to devote to this if need be. Shame work and life have denied me much time otherwise! I'll try be as clear as possible, too, and will get photos done if required.

    I do have a busy week ahead still, so will reply in snatches and so on - but please bear with me as this could be a very expensive fuck-up if I don't solve it! I'll reward you all with my.. esteem? No?

  15. #75
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    hey guys over there...i hope you could recommend me a nice graphics card that can help me play "assassin's creed III" without the Pc start to cough and freeze and give me a finger and say "don't dream to play such a game"... :D
    and i would be thankful if you also recommend me a nice Processor and rams.
    i have a core2duo 3 cache 6 and 4 Giga rams and G-force N210 one giga up to 2 giga.....but the game still slow abit

  16. #76
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    So, tech guys - any ideas on my above post? Am I wrong in my assumptions, or possibly? Is my current 'next step' to resolve a sensible one? I figure that if I can rule out the PSU, it's a useful start.

  17. #77
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    Genuine, worthwhile update:

    The problem is apparently NOT the PSU. I got so fucked off that I just went out and bought another (stupidly), a 750W job, and the symptoms are exactly the same. I've also applied a few updates for the motherboard - bit unsure about flashing the BIOS; not done it before and I'm not sure if it's going to change anything, given the descriptions on Gigabyte's page.

    So summary...

    According to ebuyer, this card is 100% fine

    Yet, while the system runs (I'm typing on it now) with my old and slightly broken gpu, I get absolutely nothing on the screen with it.

    So the GPU is fine.
    Presumably [despite some queries] the monitor can't be the problem seeing as it works otherwise.
    The CPU isn't an issue seeing as it runs fine in general.
    It detects the RAM fine.


    So - I'm beginning to think it pretty much must be a mobo problem. The only thing I haven't tried yet is tweaking the settings for the PCIe slots in the BIOS as I'm not sure what speed they're MEANT to be at, if that makes sense. It may not make any difference, but is that likely an issue if a) I've tried the card in both of the blots and no change and b) the old card just plugs in and does as expected fine?

  18. #78
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Answer me this.

    Does the system you are using now with the monitor you are using now, work with the graphics card?

  19. #79
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    As it happens, I'm typing this from the 'new' system with the old gpu in it. I did try what you are asking before, and plonk the new gpu into the old system exactly as it stood - and there was nothing doing, exactly as with the newer system. The only thing is, that was not with the new (newest, ie 750W) PSU. I don't know the power usage of the old system - I suppose it might be worth trying the old system with the new PSU and the new GPU. The only thing is, will it work - to an extent, at least - in the old system, seeing as it is 5 years old.. will it be a good measure, if that makes sense? I don't know much about the motherboard in that one. I guess it must have PCIe 2... Hm.

  20. #80
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    Another uodate

    This time with some SERIOUS news!

    I had a thought, and went and grabbed an HDMI cable - I don't have a telly, but my flatmate does, and I realised hers might have HDMI.. so I plug the 670 card in, whack in the HDMI and, lo and behold, in we go. All seems exactly as it should. OK, the tv isn't very nice to look at - it;s refreshing at 30hz and just looks nasty - but it shows that the card clearly works in the motherboard, at the very least to an extent. Either ebuyer didn't test the card properly or, as I was skeptical about, there is a problem with my monitor.

    Can someone explain why my monitor might not like the signal from the 670 - or is the port likely to be the problem, etc.? As I said before, the monitor is a few years old and only has the old style input that requires an adapter to be used before it goes into the DV port on the card.. like in this link:

    http://www.kenable.co.uk/images/dvi_...enable_ltd.jpg

    Is this really the problem? Even the GT670 box includes one of those, so surely that's a fairly standard thing still?

    Please help me get round this final thing. Are we talking new monitor here? I did list what it was somewhere in the thread - an LG Flaton W2242S-PF.. but unlike the most recent ones, mine doesn't have an HDMI input, only AC-IN and D-SUB. Up until now, it's worked 100% in this fashion:

    http://cdnsupport.gateway.com/s/Vidc.../images/01.jpg

    Any thoughts?

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