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  1. #1
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    "... E3 last night was not representative of the gaming industry of which I知 a part.

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...gaming-i-know/

    John Walker: "So I’m delighted to say that what we saw at E3 last night was not representative of the gaming industry of which I’m a part."


    Is that so? Just type 'rockpapershotgun dlc' into Google and you'll see pages of Rock Paper Shotgun articles promoting dlc. Stop promoting it and it may just disappear. But don't complain about it when you (RPS) promote it.


    John Walker: "Announcing DLC many months before a game is released ignores the ever-larger realisation that this is an affront to those who are paying full price for a new game."


    But it's ok to buy a new game and then read an article on RPS about/promoting upcoming dlc?

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    There's a difference between announcing DLC months in advance before the game is finished, and talking about it after release. The entire argument either way ultimately hinges on how you view pre-release DLC and the development cycle. If you are prepared to accept the argument that any work done outside the actual game's development cycle is DLC, then there's no problem either way and talking about DLC before it's released then becomes a moot point since it is "extra work." If you take the opposing viewpoint that any work prior to a game's release should be part of the release, then such discussions are indicative of extracting the last penny from users, and RPS criticisms are valid. Announcing DLC well before the game's released and discussing DLC after a game's release aren't the same thing, hence RPS can make such criticisms and still talk about DLC.

    In either camp though RPS ultimately posts up news of interest, and even if they don't always recommend a game or DLC they still report on it... as I'd expect. It's perfectly fine for them to criticise devs for going apeshit with DLC while also notifying you of new DLC. The sentiments isn't that "all DLC is bad" but rather that it's becoming disturbingly common for devs to use DLC and it's blurring the lines between what one might consider a "finished product" and "completed product + extra content ready outside of that for release."

    Personally I'm not a big fan of DLC and I'd rather go back to the days of expansion packs where I paid $40 and got a load of goodies for my troubles, but I can see how it makes good business sense.


    EDIT: Actually I have my own issues with the article too, namely that it seems to go on about how there's no pretentious games about abstract art without purpose or indie platformers with 8-bit graphics and some ridiculous backstory. Which I think misses the point that it's E3 and thus fairly mainstream, of course it's going to be filled with manshoots. But that's okay because it's just an opinion piece. I don't necessarily agree with it and I don't think gaming should be all about transcending humanity or whatever, but I can't criticise the man for having a viewpoint I don't agree with!
    Last edited by soldant; 06-06-2012 at 12:12 AM.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    EDIT: Actually I have my own issues with the article too, namely that it seems to go on about how there's no pretentious games about abstract art without purpose or indie platformers with 8-bit graphics and some ridiculous backstory. Which I think misses the point that it's E3 and thus fairly mainstream, of course it's going to be filled with manshoots. But that's okay because it's just an opinion piece. I don't necessarily agree with it and I don't think gaming should be all about transcending humanity or whatever, but I can't criticise the man for having a viewpoint I don't agree with!
    Well, remember that High Noon for FPSs article? You don't need to get artsy fartsy to point out that we've oversaturated a market.
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  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Well, remember that High Noon for FPSs article? You don't need to get artsy fartsy to point out that we've oversaturated a market.
    Oh I agree with the assessment that there's too many manshoots, but the general vibe towards the end seemed to suggest that gaming should move towards some sort of thought-provoking ascendency rather than something that can just be plain old fun for the sake of it. I know the article does say "mainstream and indie" but at the same time the article seems to be critical of both mainstream and the E3 presentation. And least that's the impression that I get from reading it.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    To the extent that it wasn't entirely vacuous (a purely commercial event that doesn't adequately represent the entire medium? Woah, I think I need to sit down after that revelation, next I'll be hearing that there's more to film than the Academy Awards lets on about) the article was hit-trolling by relying on evergreen sentiments of PC elitism.

    What I find truly remarkable is just how many people who profess have no interest in those silly console toys and those dumb, loud, big budget games that they play nonetheless seem to be very well informed as to exactly what went down at the presentations in question. Meanwhile unashamed console fans such as yours truly skipped them entirely because hey, I don't have time for bullshit. Incidentally, the correlation betwen non-exclusive titles showcased in those presentations and games-featured-on-RPS is pretty high. I think we're missing articles on Battlefield Premium and Black Ops 2?
    Last edited by Rii; 06-06-2012 at 07:24 AM.

  6. #6
    Administrator Rossignol's Avatar
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    Seems a little weak of you to say "promote" rather than "report", Heister. We tell people what's going on in PC gaming. That's the whole point.

    And, because we have opinions too, we also get to criticise it. In fact, we can tow pretty much any editorial line we like.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rossignol View Post
    Seems a little weak of you to say "promote" rather than "report", Heister. We tell people what's going on in PC gaming. That's the whole point.

    And, because we have opinions too, we also get to criticise it. In fact, we can tow pretty much any editorial line we like.
    Great! You get to promote it and criticise it. There's a word for that Jim!

    John stated that E3 was not representative of the gaming industry of which he is a part, and yet RPS has posted pages of articles on dlc. And yes Jim, if you post about it then you're promoting it. If he's that unhappy about Microsoft/Sony announcing the fact that they've secured dlc deals with devs then, what did he expect? That's what they do. The consoles are full of it, as is the pc going by all the RPS dlc articles to be found on Google.

    So either stop posting/promoting it or stop bloody complaining about it. But I suspect that that isn't going to happen right?

  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heister View Post
    And yes Jim, if you post about it then you're promoting it.
    So hypothetically, if I posted an article saying that Zargle Wars 2 was crap, I'd be promoting it?

    I'm calling argumentum ad absurdum on this one.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    What is this scary world you live in where nobody talks about anything that offends them, and how do I escape?

  10. #10
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kodeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heister View Post
    And yes Jim, if you post about it then you're promoting it.
    So reporting == promoting. Got it. So that means anybody reporting on, say, Greece's economic decline is really just trying to expedite their path to a hole.

  11. #11
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    I think RPS should not report on any single-player game with always-on DRM. The furthest they should go is posting news about it, but only in the form of "Some stupid game with always-on DRM has some news about it, go here if you are interested". We need some help to stop this cancer; grumpy forum posts about how you're boycotting a game is not powerful enough.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Please, don't feed the redox.

  13. #13
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kodeen's Avatar
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    Red Orchestra 2 was essentially perfect.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    To the extent that it wasn't entirely vacuous (a purely commercial event that doesn't adequately represent the entire medium? Woah, I think I need to sit down after that revelation, next I'll be hearing that there's more to film than the Academy Awards lets on about) the article was hit-trolling by relying on evergreen sentiments of PC elitism.

    What I find truly remarkable is just how many people who profess have no interest in those silly console toys and those dumb, loud, big budget games that they play nonetheless seem to be very well informed as to exactly what went down at the presentations in question. Meanwhile unashamed console fans such as yours truly skipped them entirely because hey, I don't have time for bullshit. Incidentally, the correlation betwen non-exclusive titles showcased in those presentations and games-featured-on-RPS is pretty high. I think we're missing articles on Battlefield Premium and Black Ops 2?
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...-premium-then/ I like the fact that there's a Battlefield 3 Premium ad all around the article. If you see the Medal of Honor ad just refresh the page. Jim also seems to be advertising it more than criticizing it. RPS is slowly turning into http://www.vg247.com/

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    I think RPS should not report on any single-player game with always-on DRM. The furthest they should go is posting news about it, but only in the form of "Some stupid game with always-on DRM has some news about it, go here if you are interested". We need some help to stop this cancer; grumpy forum posts about how you're boycotting a game is not powerful enough.
    That's exactly what they did with AC2 by the way. It didn't really have any noticiable impact on the sales of the game, and I believe they ultimately dropped that policy as they felt it was more useful to report while talking about the DRM than ignore (and you'd be hard-pressed to find a Diablo 3 article on RPS that doesn't have a jibe at the always-on nature of it).

  16. #16
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    because we have opinions too, we also get to criticise it. In fact, we can tow pretty much any editorial line we like.
    Jim already explained, why is anyone still talking about this?
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  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ColOfNature's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heister View Post
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...-premium-then/ I like the fact that there's a Battlefield 3 Premium ad all around the article. If you see the Medal of Honor ad just refresh the page. Jim also seems to be advertising it more than criticizing it. RPS is slowly turning into http://www.vg247.com/
    That old chestnut. The advertising doesn't mean they are being paid to write puff pieces for the stuff advertised. Last I heard the ads were placed though a third party and RPS had little or no input into who was buying ad space. And Jim described the product, questioned its worth and asked for readers opinions: hardly an enthusiastic endorsement.
    ...common and uninteresting.
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  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Jim already explained, why is anyone still talking about this?
    People like arguing?
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  19. #19
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    Another (really unfunny) E3 article by John Walker - http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...o-won-e3-2012/

    It reeks of someone (a pc gamer) that spent a few hours watching E3 presentations by console manufacturers?

  20. #20
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kodeen's Avatar
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    Redster, why do you keep coming to the site? It's quite clear that you don't like it.

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