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  1. #21
    Network Hub MOKKA's Avatar
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    Have no Idea since I mostly played an Elementalist by now. I can't really say that I understand the complaints though, maybe because I haven't delved that much into the game's mechanics.

    What I can say is that, at least when played with a staff, you can dish out a huge amount of different conditions and boons in a short time, by smartly applying combo-fields. I don't think that there's another class out there, which can put vulnerabilty, burning, chilled, regeneration, a frost armor and swiftness within a matter of a few seconds and by smartly using three skills (static field, frozen ground and lava fond). Sure, you also need a bunch of players to apply combo-finishers, but it's usually enough to simply dump all these skill in front of a character with a ranged weapon and you're good to go.
    Things are a bit more tricky, when you're alone, but you can still apply at least one condition/boon (combo-field/switch to earth/use stoning or shockwave to finish the combo).
    Sure it might be a bit tricky to pull off, but I like it, because it forces you to use your skills strategically.

    But as I said: I haven't spend any time reading up on the the game's mechanics, I'm just deducing from my own experiences here. So far I died quite rarely and I didn't had many problems.
    The only thing that brings me in trouble is when I accidently aggro half of the areas neutral mobs by using a single chain lightning.
    Last edited by MOKKA; 29-08-2012 at 07:49 AM.

  2. #22
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
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    I dont feel weaker in PvE - the biggest problem seems to be accidentally aggroing mobs like MOKKA said or my way of doing it, running rings around my target so I dont get hit and running into something elses aggro zone.

    I'm curious about what people are stacking on their armour. I started with vitality but now have a mix of vitality and power. Gems i'm just using whatever drops.

  3. #23
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    @MOKKA: Except you need three abilities and three attunements to pull that off. By the time you fire off static field, lava font will have worn off (attunement switches take a few seconds, remember, plus casting times). Meanwhile, my extremely newbie engineer has an ability that can confuse and blind enemies in a chain like chain lighting on a 15s cooldown.

    I don't know factually that elementalists are at a disadvantage, but as I'm starting to play my engineer more I understand where they're coming from. I always feel like I've achieved something as an ele when I pull off a perfect multi-attunement chain or a daze/evade/blind chain that kills a mob without taking damage, but it would appear that other classes can pull that off with less effort and more margin for error.

    If you mess up as an elementalist, you're pretty much toast.

  4. #24
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    I played several classes during the BWEs and I'm playing an elementalist right now, and yeah they do require far more skill to pull off some things that other people can do.

    The class is also oddly enough far less flexible than other classes due to not having access to two weapon sets. Sure we have four attunements but for using, for example, a staff means that you are an long range AoE caster/buffer. Using double daggers means you're a close range damage dealer. Other classes can switch up (Bow/hammer warrior, swords/staff mesmer etc.)

    However for the same reason elementalists are (in my opinion) amazing at whatever it is they choose to do at the moment. A staff wielding elementalist creates loads of different combo fields and huge area damage. Using double daggers or scepter+dagger I can pretty much annihilate anything in close range without even taking damage.

    So I can sort of understand where the complaints are coming from, on the other hand it's just so damn fun to switch attunements and pull of combos that I can't imagine playing anything else.

  5. #25
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    A little off-topic, but last night my norn elementalist hit level 30 and right away took Conjure Fiery Greatsword for my first elite skill. It did not disappoint!

    The basic attack animation - swinging the sword in a gentle off-vertical arc as it launches fireballs on the upswing - is so smooth several attacks look like one continuous motion. And then you get a flaming version of the warrior's awesome spinning greatsword attack, too. Best of all when you summon it, you get a second one for free!

  6. #26
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMoo View Post
    The class is also oddly enough far less flexible than other classes due to not having access to two weapon sets. Sure we have four attunements but for using, for example, a staff means that you are an long range AoE caster/buffer. Using double daggers means you're a close range damage dealer. Other classes can switch up (Bow/hammer warrior, swords/staff mesmer etc.)
    This is one of the things that niggles at me a bit expecially after sampling WvWvW last night. So i'm just chilling at the back of a fight, rocking my staff and watching numbers fly round the screen. Then our front line caves in. And suddenly i'm the front line. And i've got no way to defend myself as I cant switch to close combat weaponry. And all the best get out of jail skills are on the other weapons. Long story short - I ate turf. Granted i'll have a few more options later down the line as I pick up my 7-0 skills but for now it kinda sucks.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMoo View Post
    I played several classes during the BWEs and I'm playing an elementalist right now, and yeah they do require far more skill to pull off some things that other people can do.

    The class is also oddly enough far less flexible than other classes due to not having access to two weapon sets. Sure we have four attunements but for using, for example, a staff means that you are an long range AoE caster/buffer. Using double daggers means you're a close range damage dealer. Other classes can switch up (Bow/hammer warrior, swords/staff mesmer etc.)

    However for the same reason elementalists are (in my opinion) amazing at whatever it is they choose to do at the moment. A staff wielding elementalist creates loads of different combo fields and huge area damage. Using double daggers or scepter+dagger I can pretty much annihilate anything in close range without even taking damage.

    So I can sort of understand where the complaints are coming from, on the other hand it's just so damn fun to switch attunements and pull of combos that I can't imagine playing anything else.
    I feel likewise honestly. I love playing the class, it's just that I feel like I need to work twice as hard as another class to effectively do the same amount of work. My new engineer just got access to some higher end skills and boy it's fairly easy to become powerful. One hit of a button and I get a turret that lives on forever, has fairly good survivability, can explode to damage enemies, and has an extra damage ability. Oh and, it's on a 20s cooldown. Another button lets me spawn a healing turret that periodically can be triggered to heal more. Another skill gives me a grenade kit, which is basically spam combo field time.

    Meanwhile, my lesser elementals hang in the back not doing anything, or occasionally I get Swiftness while fighting mobs.

  8. #28
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    I've been mostly going staff in WvW since launch, and my best chance of surviving is going Air attunement with all the speed buffs I can stack. You turn into a mobility skirmisher who can back out of trouble if the frontline shifts, and is excellent at flanking fights and causing random damage to the squishy guys at the back. It really causes panic, especially with a few Static Field AOEs to shake things up. I've been stacking as much precision as I can for the criticals.

    I also love the options Fire attunement gives you on keep sieges. When I found I could target over walls with AOE it was a happy day.

  9. #29
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
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    I've had a chance to get used to the range of skills a elementalist has to offer so i've been fiddling with a build editor to try and get some sort of plan on how I want to progress. This is my first attempt http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fEAQ...oQAEEFso8AnZsB. I tend to run around in PvE in air with a scepter/focus and have been stacking power/precision on gear so i've used the traits to add a bit more survivability with shields and dodges along with a few useful damage causing abilities. Any thoughts?

  10. #30
    Obscure Node Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyFire View Post
    So I've been reading up on the elementalist class a bit, and I've discovered that there are a lot of complaints about the elementalist's overall power compared to its difficulty to play and the number of skills required to achieve the same effect as other classes.

    I've only played my elementalist much thus far, so I wondered: does anybody here feel the same?
    The first thing that springs to mind is a Warrior's combo of:

    Signet of Rage > Frenzy > Bull's Charge > Hundred Blades.

    That'll put out some mental damage. Whereas a double dagger Elementalist combo would be:

    Ride the Lightning > Updraft > Attunement Switch > Burning Speed > Fire Grab > Arcane Blast > Arcane Wave.

    I'd much prefer it the Elementalist way though.

  11. #31
    Network Hub MOKKA's Avatar
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    Does anybody know if critical hits also apply on area-attacks (like Lava Font or Erruption)?
    I'm asking because I'm using a staff and so far put a lot of points on air-magic to increase my chance for critical hits. But since most damage-skills on the staff are area-based attacks, I'm thinking that it might be a better Idea to focus more on raw, 'unconditioned' damage (ergo, more points in power then in precision), if you're using a staff.

  12. #32
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    I do believe critical hits work with AoEs but it's on a per-target, per-tick basis as opposed to a whole AoE critting everyone in it at once (that's what Arcane Wave is for, muahaha).

    Regardless critical damage still depends on base damage and therefore power too. I would say a mix of both is best, or leaning towards mostly power.

    That said I didn't much like the major traits in the early Fire Magic line, so I've not invested in power yet. (I just hit level 40 last night and now have 10 in Air Magic, Water Magic and Arcana.)

  13. #33
    Network Hub MOKKA's Avatar
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    I did a few experiments yesterday and found out that AoE Attacks can inflict critical hits. I was shooting for a Precision/Power Build anyway but couldn't decide on which I want to concentrate more. Right now it's Precision, mostly because I like all these additional conditions you can apply with certain traits. I also have a nice Sigil on my staff which has a 30% chance of generating a flame burst on a critical hit, it's funny how fast mobs go down when this thing triggers.

    Right now I have a few problems figuring out what kind of traits I should actually pick, especially in the higher tiers. Somehow all the 'Grand-Master'-traits seem pretty useless for what the kind of 'build' (it's more of a half-random collection of skills and traits) I have in mind.

  14. #34
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    I have realized that heavy spec in air/fire is a terrible idea for general PvE. It lets you deal good damage for the half a second you're alive.

    My new build is heavy on earth with some fire and arcane, plus the bare minimum of points in water to gain condition removal. That lets me deal heavy condition damage (earth increases damage, fire increases duration) with burning and bleeding. I still do a lot of damage, albeit with fewer crits, but more importantly I can actually jump into the battle without dying instantly, which lets me stack heavy damage abilities in close range (I use S/D now). End result being that I die very rarely and still dish out rather strong damage.

    In order to compensate for my lower damage in traits, I also tend to look for power/precision items with crit chance bonuses.

    @Screwie: the 30% burning chance on critical hit is the most amazing thing ever in the fire line.

  15. #35
    Network Hub MOKKA's Avatar
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    I think it depends. You can run with such a build, but then you have to be prepared that you can't take much damage. Using a staff helps, because you can attack from farther away. Using Elementals as meatshields helps as well, especially if you use Earth Elementals. The great thing in this game is that you have a bunch of possibilies to avoid damage, you just have to get very good at that, the more fragile you are.

    But of course, all this might change over time. I haven't even reached max level yet and don't have much experience with higher- (difficulty-)level PvE, but until I run into any problems I think I'm going to stick with my glass cannon.

  16. #36
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    I'm finding that, for soloing at least, sceptre/dagger in air aspect is about the most fun I've ever had as a mage. Ride the lightning in, immediately updraft back out knocking them down then hit lightning strike and blinding flash to smack then hard and blind them to give you time to orientate and start moving is just awesome for getting things started and ride the lighting is generally useful to speed up movement in safe areas like cities.

    The earth aspect also works well with a knockdown, armour buff, blind, a huge AOE hit. Good fall back for when that veteran jumps you.

    As for it being a bit more work than other classes: The only other class I have any experience with is mesmer in the final beta weekends and if I remember correctly it has a staff (I think) ability that applies a random condition every time it hits, which is certainly a lot less effort than we have to go to. I'm not sure we really lack that much flexibility though, our aspects give us more abilities than pretty much any one else and a few careful skill choices can buy us the time to get back to optimum range for the weapon set we use.

  17. #37
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    @MOKKA: I was using a staff with a heavy power/precision focus for traits just fine until I reached Bloodtide Coast. Then my glass cannon utterly shattered and I got nuked by the first DE I did there, no matter what I tried. There's a point where you just can't avoid that many attacks and when even just one takes out half your health you're pretty much hosed. It's fine in easy areas where mobs are few and far between, not very aggressive, not very damaging, and especially when you're over level, but when those change (and they will change), things take a turn for the worse.

    That build is perfectly viable in WvW though, as the staff is a much better crowd control weapon and long range AoE support, which makes it suited to WvW. If you get targeted as an elementalist in WvW, chances are you're going to either come out without a scratch or die horribly, no matter what spec you have.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackalHeadGod View Post
    I'm finding that, for soloing at least, sceptre/dagger in air aspect is about the most fun I've ever had as a mage. Ride the lightning in, immediately updraft back out knocking them down then hit lightning strike and blinding flash to smack then hard and blind them to give you time to orientate and start moving is just awesome for getting things started and ride the lighting is generally useful to speed up movement in safe areas like cities.

    The earth aspect also works well with a knockdown, armour buff, blind, a huge AOE hit. Good fall back for when that veteran jumps you.
    I too love the scepter/dagger combo, I switch between that and dagger/dagger while soloing a lot.

    Scepter has a lot more control than main dagger, plus a couple of combo-friendly projectiles and a second heal in water attunement, not to mention the added range. I find it is a nice compromise between the more frenetic play that main dagger requires and the security that staff gives.

    My favourite solo trick right now though is (with offhand dagger) Ring of Fire -> Arcane Wave, which causes a nice damage spike and grants an "Area Might" combo (3 stacks of Might). Plus, zipping around with the 3 leaping moves in main dagger is super fun.

    After putting 10 trait points into Arcana I don't know if I can ever go back - Elemental Attunement in the first major slot is so, so useful for general PvE.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    After putting 10 trait points into Arcana I don't know if I can ever go back - Elemental Attunement in the first major slot is so, so useful for general PvE.
    I've been running mostly power/precision gear and trait points in the lines of the aspects I'm using. Which was fine for lower level areas where the content is pretty easy. Now I'm finding that's left me a little too glass cannon so I'm starting to look at diversifying my trait points and armour selection for a more well rounded set.

    I may have been tricked into spec'ing like a WoW mage without realising it, despite knowing that's not how it works.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by FriendlyFire View Post
    I have realized that heavy spec in air/fire is a terrible idea for general PvE. It lets you deal good damage for the half a second you're alive.
    I've been running a glass cannon air/arcana/fire - power/precision/crit dmg build which has been more than fine for solo content, but more than frustrating in dungeons cause of the constant 1 shotting from "unavoidable" damage (damage you can't reliably avoid at least).

    So yesterday for explorable AC I scrapped the glass cannon for a earth/water - toughness/vitality build and boy is there a world of difference! I was most often alive the longest (as opposed to always being the one graveyard running) because I always had a counter to everything the bosses threw at me. X/Focus and water/earth traits gives invulnerability, two debuff clears, 33% DR below 50%, single target freeze and the toughness and vitality to survive a slip up. Add utility skills and your mh of choice and you have even more tricks up the ol sleeve.

    With gear and more trait points comes more leeway for hybrid play (I'm 42 so I can only go heavily to one side or the other), but I don't think we'll be successful as glass cannons in group play.

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