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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Red Orchastra 2 - Worth Buying?

    Because it is on stale on steam. I'd like to know if a lot of people still play the game, for one.

  2. #2
    Lesser Hivemind Node Scumbag's Avatar
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    One of those small dedicated communities. Bigger then it was shortly after release because its now playable.
    Gameplay is very much an issue of personal taste: Its good, but only if you are patient. It encourages camping and making very good use of anything that could be classed as cover. Lots of instadeath.

  3. #3
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    There's usually only 2-4 servers with enough people online, and because of that they have both eu and us (and australia and wherever the fuck else) players on the same server (lag ahoy).

    The engine also isn't suited for this type of game, you are basically searching for pixel sized heads peeking out of cover/lying on the floor) while the game itself is a jaggy pixelcrawling fuzzy bloomy mess with no contrast between enemy and surroundings.

    From the 10 odd hours I've played the community is pretty bad too, few bother going for the objectives and teamkills happen quite a lot.

    Both gunplay, community quality and room clearing gameplay are inferior to even America's army.
    It's way too easy to snipe with sub machine guns and for a supposed sim it's far too easy to kill people (recoil really doesn't come into play unless you hipfire, I found it just as easy to kill someone as in the call of duty games).

    The cover system is also shit and barely functional (bugs out on many objects).
    Oh and the audio is terrible, by which I don't mean I expect the retarded 'war tapes' audio crap from battlefield, but you can barely if at all hear what direction shots come from. Pretty much every other shooter does the audio part better than ro2.

    All in all in the games where I did well (high team score and amount of kills) it didn't feel rewarding at all, there are plenty of objective based shooters with far more rewarding teamplay than this. The easy gunplay makes that part unrewarding as well.

    Get RO1 if you really want to play a RO game at least the game engine is better suited to the genre and there is actually some tanking in that game.

    I liked operation flashpoint way back when, enjoyed realism mods for other shooters and liked AA 1.x and love WW2 theme shooters, so it would take a lot for me to dislike a ww2 'realism' shooter.

    Also: if the game was worth playing it would have more than 2 active servers shared between the US and EU after a year...

    There are several (good) source mp mods that still have more than 2 active servers after several years, more people still play cs 1.5 on WON 2 after 10+ years despite cs 1.6 and css being available.

    Rewarding games keep people around, games that hide flaws and poor design behind the 'realism' monniker do not.
    Last edited by Finicky; 21-07-2012 at 07:22 PM.

  4. #4
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bobtree's Avatar
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    I'm sad to say not really, particularly if you weren't already dying to play a hellish "realistic" multi-player FPS and throwing your money at the developers. Now is the time to play it if you want to though, before support ends and the community dries up and only the seriously hardcore fanatics are left to play against.

  5. #5
    Lesser Hivemind Node Velko's Avatar
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    I say yes. I enjoy it. I like guns with proper killing power. You don't need three headshots or a clip in the chest: just point at the stomach and pull the trigger. Makes the game flow more naturally, I think. I've had some awesome moments when people have co-operated and attacked the objectives. Surely there's a bunch of jerks around, but hey it's the internet. At some point I did find that playing became much more enjoyable when I turned the VON volume to zero, though. If it's not someone shouting obscenities, it's a couple of Russians chatting idly. But yes, overall I like it a lot, and there are a couple of neat mods in the works which (hopefully) will create something like Darkest Hour did for the first RO.

  6. #6
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    As much as Unreal Engine 2 wasn't quite perfect RO1 it was at least passable compared to using Unreal Engine 3 for RO2. With RO1 you could at least have large maps and a long draw distance, even if that draw distance was variable(The stuff you see has a longer draw distance on the side of the screen rather than the center, so turning to look at something could actually make it disappear. It's kinda funky that way.). With RO2 you've got much smaller maps to start with, and then they've added tons of "fog" to some of the maps to cover up the terrible draw distance. At least that's my experience with the game from when it was released, not counting my massive frustration at the broken state it was released in since I've heard most of that was fixed earlier this year.

    And it made me sad because I loved RO1, and then I loved the Darkest Hour mod after I got bored with vanilla. But RO2 just really left something to be desired. I'm still looking forward to the In Country and Rising Storm mods, though, because UE3 should do pretty well for the kinds of close fighting that we'll see in them.
    Last edited by unruly; 21-07-2012 at 08:48 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by unruly View Post
    draw distance was variable(The stuff you see has a longer draw distance on the side of the screen rather than the center, so turning to look at something could actually make it disappear. It's kinda funky that way.).
    Why in god's name is that how draw distance works in some engines? I honestly can't understand it. Why not give me max draw distance in the centre and ignore the sides?

  8. #8
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    I have about 40 hours in to RO2, and love it. No other shooter has made me actively scared to poke my head above a trench or creep around a bunker. Kills are very satisfying, artillery is terrifying, and the community has been great in my experience.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny252 View Post
    Why in god's name is that how draw distance works in some engines? I honestly can't understand it. Why not give me max draw distance in the centre and ignore the sides?
    It's probably a square that is being projected around the player, or something else rather rectangular, and everything in that sqaure is being drawn. As a result, the corners of the sqaure are further away from the player, and thus, you get further draw distances in the corners.

  10. #10
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    If you are looking for a more realistic FPS with developers who intend to support the game long after release with free DLC I would definitely get it.

    On average there are 1300 players online and the numbers increase during the weekends. ( there will be small increase in the average due to the sale)

    Pixel hunting, which was hugely important in RO1, is essentially gone in RO2 with the introduction of the zoom (very similar to Arma series zoom).

    If you get it now you will be team killed and you will find players not playing the objectives. Every Steam sale brings in loads of new players who have a hard time picking out friendlies at range and are afraid of being killed. After a few days the new players will learn what to do and how to play and everything goes back to normal (infrequent team kills and players pushing the objectives).

    If you are familiar with RO1 you need to come at this with a different idea of how to play. Because many of the maps are based on the battle of Stalingrad they are usually urban and have ranges around 50-100M as the average. This means that the sub machine guns will be nearly as accurate as any rifle due to the range the battles are played at, and more importantly recoil has become more realistic. This means that it is much easier to be hit and the key to not dying is minimizing exposure and movement, whereas in RO1 it was largely about resting your gun on a ledge and shooting whoever you saw walk in front of you.

    The cover system while useful on occasion should not be the primary way of taking cover. It forces you to hug the cover and with realistic penetration of objects you will be shot through many of the walls if your opponent can see where you are at.

    Overall RO2 is a great and rewarding game that is being consistently supported by the developers (mapping contests, free content). It provides both intense house to house fighting and nerve racking firefights at ranges of 250 and more.

    Whether or not you should buy it largely revolves around your attraction to slower paced shooters.



    Unruly, have you played RO2 since the first content patch was released? The new map has an average engagement range of over 100M and a lot of the fiddlyness orgiinal present has been cleared up.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wengart View Post
    Unruly, have you played RO2 since the first content patch was released? The new map has an average engagement range of over 100M and a lot of the fiddlyness orgiinal present has been cleared up.
    The last time I played was in December for the Christmas sale achievement, and the game was still broken and terrible then. I got the achievement as fast as I could upon realizing that nothing had been fixed in the last month or so(I had previously quit in November), and shelved the game once again. As I said, I've heard that they released a pretty big patch that supposedly fixed a bunch of stuff, but that initial sourness has yet to pass.

    It's funny. BF3 probably had just as many bugs as RO2 did at launch, but I'll still play it because it was actually playable for me at launch, and on decent graphics settings. RO2, on the other hand, has generally the same requirements(actually slightly lesser), but forced me to run the game on the lowest possible settings in order to get a meager 10fps because it was just that badly broken at launch. And I remember their first two or three patches with "performance optimizations" were that they took a whole bunch of stuff out of the maps, like modeled sections of rubble, and replaced them with 1998-looking geometric mounds and flat textures or just lowered the texture quality all around. And because of that I didn't put up with RO2 for very long since playing a claymation slideshow is no fun. But I'll still play BF3, despite the bugs, because it's been consistently playable since day one. Don't get me wrong, I still had fun with RO2, but I could only put up with 10fps for so long. I gave them until early-mid November to do something, anything, to improve the experience and nothing came of it.

    One thing that may get me to come back is a real tank/combined arms map. Something like Arad from RO1, or Eindhoven from Darkest Hour(I know Tripwire had nothing to do with that one, but it's an example of a map style). A fair amount of armor, long sight lines, and transport vehicles to get the infantry to the front. I know that RO2 is supposed to focus on Stalingrad, but one of the things that made RO great was the tank battles. And RO2 doesn't have those at all, mainly due to the fact that there's only two vehicles in the game. I remember there being talk of new vehicles being added in after release since they supposedly took 3 months per vehicle to model, and I know that bug/performance fixes take priority, but it's been almost a year and there's not been a peep about new vehicles. It's as if they've just brushed the thought aside entirely.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    The last time I played was in December for the Christmas sale achievement, and the game was still broken and terrible then.
    You could have added that you know?

    The game's far from perfect as it is right now but there has been some noticeable improvement and as said, the new map has a much longer engagement range.

    Personally, I enjoy Ro2 for what it is but haven't played in a month or so. It's a tense shooter that works really well at times and others it's just a frustrating camp fest. It really depends on how well your team's perfoming as a whole. People are whining that German weapons need to nerfed (esp. the Stg44) but I think that the more experienced players just tend to join the Axis for whatever reason (except on the Russian servers).

    Also there the player base is more stable now and there are usually more than 2-4 servers, depending on which mode you want to play (action/realism/classic).


    Regarding vehicles: I think halftracks are in the works and several mods have sprung up that aim to recreate the combined arms feel of RO1
    Last edited by Wolfenswan; 22-07-2012 at 10:43 AM.

  13. #13
    Network Hub LaunchJC's Avatar
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    It's a much better game than it was at launch and it has been EXTENSIVELY patched, that said it's probably just got too many bugs and issues to be THE mp game I play, much better as a side order to whatever your main multiplayer love is.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfenswan View Post
    You could have added that you know?

    The game's far from perfect as it is right now but there has been some noticeable improvement and as said, the new map has a much longer engagement range.
    I thought I made it rather clear that my experience with the game was old. I even made sure to mention that I'd been told things had improved quit a bit as of this year. Apparently the content update was a big game changer.

    People are whining that German weapons need to nerfed (esp. the Stg44) but I think that the more experienced players just tend to join the Axis for whatever reason (except on the Russian servers).
    When I was playing there was a pretty drastic difference between the weapons that favored the Germans, with the MKb-42 just being the shining example because of its vast superiority to its Russian counterpart, the AVT-40. The MKb had a larger clip size, was just as lethal, had perfect range for all of the maps, and had much lower recoil than the AVT leading it to be the absolute best weapon in the game because it was usable in every circumstance. While that's true to form from a realism standpoint, it was incredibly broken because you'd have half of the Axis team using them since the weapon/class limits were so screwed up. It also didn't really help that the PPSh wasn't accurately represented, with its recoil being quite a bit worse than the larger caliber MP-40's and it having a box magazine to start rather than the standard-issue drum. So you had the problem of higher recoil and lower damage for the PPSh without it being offset by the increased ammo capacity of the drum magazine like it had been in RO1. Add to that the fact that the MP-40 got a double magazine upgrade at the same time as the PPSh would get the drum magazine(which it should have had at the start) and you got a situation where the German weapons were markedly superior in the game. I guess that in the PPSh's case they didn't want a repeat of RO1, where it was the SMG of choice, but in attempting to fix it they only reversed the problem.

    Maybe that's been fixed, but I don't know. It seems like it would be hard to fix the MKb/AVT disparity because that's actually grounded in reality(the AVT was a marked failure as a weapon). A fix for just the recoil on the PPSh would go a long way towards fixing the MP40's dominance though, because I remember the PPSh being almost worthless after the first shot when I was playing.

    Regarding vehicles: I think halftracks are in the works and several mods have sprung up that aim to recreate the combined arms feel of RO1
    That's good to hear. Having a halftrack for each team will go a long way towards allowing for maps like Arad to come back, even with only one tank type per side. In fact, that might actually make maps like Arad better because you'd have much more equal tank battles that were determined by who and where they were fighting rather than whether or not they ran into an IS-2 or Panther. I'm not saying that the big tanks shouldn't come back, but I saw an arms race of sorts emerge in RO1 with people only wanting to play with the big tanks.

    Mods, on the other hand, are something that I think Tripwire needs to worry about a little bit right now. The bad launch state of RO2 has undoubtedly trimmed an already small user base down, and the last thing they need is for a whole bunch of mods to come out and fragment it. Rising Storm and In Country are somewhat exceptions to this, since they will both provide something different from the vanilla RO experience and probably bring in some of their own players, but a mod or group of mods that focus only on adding new vehicles and don't really differentiate themselves from vanilla would be bad for the game.

  15. #15
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    I have three 3-day passes for Red Orchestra 2. If anyone would like one send me a PM.

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    Dead thread revival - GO!

    In all seriousness, I just wanted to come back to this thread to say that RO2 has been drastically improved from launch, which is when I had last played it. I just picked it up again over the last 3 days and I'm having a lot of fun with it again.

    Granted, there are still issues, like I've had the reload animations stop working and the game calling me a speed hacker at the slightest bit of rubberbanding due to lag, but most of the major stuff has been fixed. The performance seems to be way higher, since I can't count individual frames anymore even with the game running on high, and things just seem to be running much more smoothly in general.

    The biggest issue that I'll complain about, that's actually a bug and not just a lack of certain kinds of content, is that I still run into the issue of the spawn menu not staying open for more than a few seconds every once in a while. It makes it so I can't even select which spawn point I want, let alone attempt to switch roles. The scoreboard does this as well, but it's not nearly as big a deal since the only times I'm looking at the scoreboard are when I'm dead or when reinforcements have run out to see how many people are left alive. Pixel hunting is a bit of a bitch, but that's to be expected so I won't complain about it all that much. But I do wish they would get bullet penetration kind of evened out more. There have been a few times where I could see a guy's rifle sticking through a window, shot the wall where he should have been standing with my rifle, and not gotten a kill. Then a guy with a PPSh comes up, shoots the same wall, and the guy drops dead without me getting so much as an assist. It's not a frequent occurrence, but it's often enough that it should probably be fixed.

    And of course, to close it off, I'll say again that they still need to introduce more vehicles into the game. I'm not calling for stuff like the IS-2 and Tigers but I'd like to at least see halftracks, and maybe the SU-76 and StuG III, so that armored combat maps can have a chance at some variety. Just because RO2 is supposed to focus on Stalingrad doesn't mean that it should ignore everything else.

  17. #17
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    I tried the game when they had a free weekend. Deleted after realizing I couldn't set the brightness and contrast independently so the outdoors were glowing like the sun and indoors were pitch black.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    As I ragequit from Guild Wars in anticipation of Guild Wars 2 (GOD DAMNED WHITE MANTLE BASTARDS!!!), I decided to play some more RO2.

    Just as awesome as I remember from the mod and the game itself.

    This is the only game where the following can all happen simultaneously:

    Random people actually use voice comms to organize awesome attacks
    There is a discussion of military history
    People are singing the "rape train" song
    Beautifully fair and tactical combat
    The losing side (who truly are getting raped horribly as they have 200 tickets to our 900...) are actually having fun and NOT bitching.

    RO2 isn't as good as ArmA for the upper levels of community, but it is my absolute favorite game to pub.

    Only annoyance is when the game bitches at me to stop being a rifleman (I LIKE my bolt-action, thank you) and the occasional recruiter for a clan. But, since RO2 flopped horribly, the latter are a lot less annoying than they were in the mod or RO1.
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  19. #19
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    Indeed. RO2 can turn into some amazing things. Of course, more often than not you'll get shot from who knows where by someone you never see. And after playing a handful of new/custom maps like Bridges of Druzhino(sp?) I can definitely see why, at least until more vehicle get added in, large and open maps aren't favored. The pixel hunt is just so atrocious in this game.

    Also, it seems like weapon zeros aren't right. It defaults to 100m, but I'll have to change it to 200m to hit someone at 90m if I'm aiming at their torso. Which is not the way that zeroing works! If it's zeroed at 100m, I should be hitting a target at 100m away directly where I'm putting my sights(assuming a stationary position and no rifle sway). Anything closer than 100m should require me to actually aim slightly lower than where I want to hit if I'm using the 100m zeroing, due to the parabolic arc of a bullet. So either the game is lying to me about the zeroing of the rifle, or it's lying to me about the distance of the kill. Because there's no reason I should be having to switch over to the 200m zero if the killscroll says that the target I just shot was at 95m out.

    I've never had the game bitch at me for being a rifleman though. Maybe it's because I haven't maxed out the class yet? But then again, I'm slow to load into levels so I'm always stuck with rifleman anyways. I don't really care, because it's my favorite class, but sometimes I'd like to run assault. It does always seem like I'm the first person to get autobalanced though. I guess it has to do with the fact that I'm firmly a middle of the pack player in terms of skill.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    The way it works is that if you do really good in a round, it basically says "Yo, you should take a higher ranking class because your team sucks and you would be more effective in that role". To which I say "But... bolt-action!". It isn't mandatory, but it bothers me.

    For me, getting an automatic involves killing someone and taking it off their corpse (or a corpse of a friend). Any time I find myself needing one, I can find one. Although I would like to spawn with a pistol as a back-up like I do in the SP.
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