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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Free to play games with non cosmetic items/boosters can go to hell.
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  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Not going to miss out just because some guy made some stupid comment about piracy, this doesn't make AC3 any less interesting.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SephKing View Post
    Diablo 3 (a PC exclusive) sells over 8 Million copies.
    Skyrim on PC had 250,000 active players at a time so must have sold at least a million copies (probably closer to 2 or 3)
    Witcher 2 has sold over a million copies and the pre orders weren't far off Uncharted 3.
    Diablo = online game

    Skyrim = Steam Guard

    The Witcher 2 = had a massive piracy rate (something like 1 sale for every four downloads) even though CD Projekt offered pretty sweet deals via GOG and Steam (so much for the 'added value' argument). Also 1 million units is not great for any AAA tbh.

    Personally I hate the notion that things might go down the F2P route tbh, however games need to be profitable at the end of the day if developers are going to continue making them.

    Also, just because people pirate games that doesn't mean they wont buy it if it's good. I pirate games now and again that i'm on the fence about, especially if they don't have a demo as I like to make sure that the game runs well, is a good port & is a good game. If it ticks the boxes then I buy, If it doesn't then I don't play. A lot of people I know do the same.
    Also I find it quite ironic that the biggest computer hardware e-peener on the forum also a proud pirate. sad, sad W...
    Last edited by Kadayi; 22-08-2012 at 02:09 PM.
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  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jockie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    Not going to miss out just because some guy made some stupid comment about piracy, this doesn't make AC3 any less interesting.
    Quite, I don't entirely understand the reaction of refusing to buy AC3 because the bloke made some daft comments? Presumably Borderlands 2 is out of bounds too for similar reasons. I look to game developers to make good games, not to be fonts of wisdom and eloquence.
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  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jockie View Post
    Quite, I don't entirely understand the reaction of refusing to buy AC3 because the bloke made some daft comments? Presumably Borderlands 2 is out of bounds too for similar reasons. I look to game developers to make good games, not to be fonts of wisdom and eloquence.
    But people are personally offended Jockie. It's important that the developers are punished for these transgressions surely? The best way undoubtedly being to pirate all their games from here on in, because that will teach them respect.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 22-08-2012 at 02:09 PM.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
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  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Maybe I should be thankful he didn't outright say piracy is the equivalent of smashing a shop window and stealing the contents, but I'm so sick of the pirated copy = lost sale fallacy. I'm willing to bet my last tic-tac that the majority of pirates download games because the only thing people love more than cinnamon blowjobs, is free stuff.

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    cinnamon blowjobs, you say?

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jockie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    But people are personally offended Jockie. It's important that the developers are punished for these transgressions surely? The best way undoubtedly being to pirate all their games from here on in, because that will teach them respect.
    I do adore the logic of pirates, who use their piracy to 'punish' people, as though it's some kind of vigilante act, promoting freedom and consumer power. At least be honest about why you are pirating : because you like free things/are a poor student/are a greedy scrote/because it's really fucking easy etc.
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  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    Maybe I should be thankful he didn't outright say piracy is the equivalent of smashing a shop window and stealing the contents, but I'm so sick of the pirated copy = lost sale fallacy. I'm willing to bet my last tic-tac that the majority of pirates download games because the only thing people love more than cinnamon blowjobs, is free stuff.
    I'm fairly sure the arguments never been that every pirated copy is a lot sale tbh (if fact I can't recall a developer/or publisher ever saying that). However if people are prepared to pirate if they can (they clearly have an interest in it) then there's a degree of probability that they might well buy it if they can't pirate it, especially if everyone else is raving about how good it is. There's a cultural zeitgeist to games after all and people all like to be on the train with these things.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 22-08-2012 at 02:15 PM.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
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  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Exactly. Saying that the argument is "pirated copy == lost sale" is just a huge straw man that has been perpetuated (just like "if DRM is ever cracked it was useless")

    What is said is that a pirated copy is indicative of a lost sale. The ratio will obviously vary based upon price and quality, but when you have 90% piracy rates you can be DAMNED sure that a good chunk of that was lost sales.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Diablo = online game

    Skyrim = Steam Guard

    The Witcher 2 = had a massive piracy rate (something like 1 sale for every four downloads) even though CD Projekt offered pretty sweet deals via GOG and Steam (so much for the 'added value' argument). Also 1 million units is not great for any AAA tbh.
    Except as always "piracy rate" means nothing at all, it is only relevant if you assume each illegal download is a lost sale, which it never is. Also Witcher 2 pushed more than 1 million units just on PC, so I do not see why you think that is an unreasonable sales figure, for arguably a less well known title, and they had more marketing for the 360 release then they did the PC.

    Quote Originally Posted by gundato
    but when you have 90% piracy rates you can be DAMNED sure that a good chunk of that was lost sales.
    Any evidence to back up your wild claim, or is it just a guess much like every other piracy rate guess.

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    This piracy thing is just an excuse so UBI can justify not making new games but continue to profit off already made games by just selling costumes and things.

    Here's the formula:
    1. Make a game
    2. release half of it as F2P
    3. incrementally release the rest of the game over 2-5 year period, charging for the updates.

    Many purchases in f2p games aren't even new content, or anything a developer has to really work on, like XP bonuses or increased stats.

    This is just Ubisoft trying to justify thievery, ironically blaming piracy.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jockie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    This is just Ubisoft trying to justify thievery, ironically blaming piracy.
    How the f*** is offering half a game for free, then allowing you to OPTIONALLY pay for further content, thievery?
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  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byteCrunch View Post
    Any evidence to back up your wild claim, or is it just a guess much like every other piracy rate guess.
    ...
    ...
    Really? Assuming that a sizable chunk of the 90% would buy a game they pirated if they couldn't pirate it is a "wild claim"? Then in that case, I got a bridge to sell you.


    Okey dokeys, do you have any evidence to suggest that no pirates will ever buy a game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jockie View Post
    How the f*** is offering half a game for free, then allowing you to OPTIONALLY pay for further content, thievery?
    Because it is Ubi, and everything they do is wrong.
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  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Well, by a long logical stretch, obviously.
    Thievery as in "highway robbery" not actual thievery.
    Idiom.
    figure of speech.
    etc...

  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    But people are personally offended Jockie. It's important that the developers are punished for these transgressions surely? The best way undoubtedly being to pirate all their games from here on in, because that will teach them respect.
    And it's so easy to be offended too. The developer brought out a game too quickly? That's a piratin'. Too slowly? Piratin'. Said they don't like Eastern games? Ooo, you betta' believe that's a piratin'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    However if people are prepared to pirate if they can (they clearly have an interest in it) then there's a degree of probability that they might well buy it if they can't pirate it, especially if everyone else is raving about how good it is.
    Of course. I just doubt it's a very high percentage. Could be wrong though. The difference is I'm not going to push bullshit statistics on you and claim it's indisputable fact, because the truth is it's not something that can be accurately measured.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Okey dokeys, do you have any evidence to suggest that no pirates will ever buy a game?
    Do you have any data as to how many pirates actually buy games?

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Do you have any data as to how many pirates actually buy games?
    Absolutely none. Do you have any? :p. What I do have is common sense and a grasp of the fundamentals of economics.

    Apparently we are going to assume the default case is that they refuse to buy games, which I don't think is fair. If we can't use any logic to make the VERY fair assumption that "If 90% of people playing the game are pirates, a sizable chunk of them would have bought the game if they couldn't pirate it", then I want to see the logic that refutes this.

    Again, the problem that people seem to refuse to get their heads around (because it is a much harder argument to refute, hence the straw man) is this: There is almost assuredly not a 1:1 ratio of pirated copies to lost sales. But there is definitely a ratio in there somewhere. So yes, 90% piracy rates are very indicative of lost sales. Some people will assume more (80%) others will assume less (10%), but the fact of the matter is: Those are lost sales and lost revenue.
    Last edited by gundato; 22-08-2012 at 02:41 PM.
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  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jockie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkasaurusmex View Post
    Well, by a long logical stretch, obviously.
    Thievery as in "highway robbery" not actual thievery.
    Idiom.
    figure of speech.
    etc...
    Right so, then it's not really ironic is it, if one example is actually someone stealing something and the other is a subjective assessment of value.

    I don't really like the micro-transaction model, or the games they produce, but it's a perfectly legitimate business model to pursue and in a market where the traditional RTS is basically extinct, it's a sensible way of keeping them alive.
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  20. #40
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    The last Ubisoft game that I enjoy was Dyna Blaster. SO sad XD. Does it matter what conclusion they draw if they make crappy games ?
    pass

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