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  1. #1
    Network Hub Antares's Avatar
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    The Strategonomicon - share your tips and tricks!

    Greetings, fellow archdemons!

    As you all know, SI is a fairly intricate game with lots of obscure game mechanics, and while I sadly haven't finished a game yet I have managed to pick up a few things along the way, mostly by browsing through the manual and online resources whenever I wondered how things work. I hope you'll find these useful and maybe even tell us your own!

    Game mechanics :


    • Challenge rolls for rituals work like so:
      • Both the attacker and the defender roll a number. In the case of a tie, the defender wins.
      • The attacker's total is 2d6 (roll two six-sided die, add them together) + ritual discipline level + bonuses from perks, PoPs, relics.
      • The defender's total is 2d6 + target-specific resist modifier (the level of the target, or an average between level and loyalty when targeting legions EDIT : with deceit rituals, thanks to Heliocentric) + bonuses from rituals, perks, PoPs, relics
      • I don't know what the loyalty rating for starting legions is, though. (EDIT: the rating is a whooping 10, and bribe rituals automatically fail. Thanks to Heliocentric for the info)

    • When using prophecy or deceit rituals, the check that determines wether the target finds out about the caster's identity is the same, except the defender doesn't get the target's resist modifier. This same check is also used when attempting to frame someone.


    Builds :


    • There is (AFAIK) no reason to pick anything other than Lust or Gluttony as your Public Objective. Even if you never bother capturing the Temple of Lust / Garden of Infernal Delights (and who knows, you might get a lucky placement) or never have 35 souls to spare, the extra 3+ fiend points are well worth the 30 Prestige you might get otherwise.
      I'd love to hear dissenting opinions on this, though, because always picking the same objectives gets boring fast.
    • Similarly, always have Charisma at a minimum of 2. 3 is significantly better, though, and well worth the fiend points, as it'll let you keep 3 cards rather than 2. If you do start with 2, make sure you bump it up ASAP.
    • For the above reason, If you don't have the points to spare for Cha 3 and have a free perk slot, consider going for Cha 3 + Obscure. It costs the exact same as Cha 2 and makes for a much smoother start.


    Reading your enemy's builds:


    • This one's important! One crucial thing to know is that your starting legion's stats tell a lot about your initial build. The formula goes like this:
      • You start with 6 points
      • You get an extra point for each non-zero, non-Cha attribute
      • You get an extra point for every level in a non-Cha attribute
      • These points are then randomly allocated to each of the stats

    • Knowing an archfiend's rank, Public Objective and assuming a starting Cha of a least 2, you can make fairly accurate predictions about what their stats look like (while you're checking their legion, make sure you have a look at their movement speed. A move of 1 means they picked Slothful). Go to the character creator and attempt to fill in the blanks. Players with lots of fiend points left over are likely to be either Power Behind the Throne / Kingmaker players or Charisma-centric turtle builds, and you should watch them closely.
    • If you want a solid starting legion for cheap, a X/1/1/1 build (where X is the level for your primary attribute) will get you a legion with a minimum total of 14, with 6 extra legion stat points over X/0/0/0 but only costing 6 additional fiend points. This makes for a fairly decent start, but might delay your 3rd order slot.
    • If you suspect your opponent has a high Martial rating but want confirmation, look at his legion or PoP's health regeneration. Martial 3 grants an additional +1 health per turn. Note that Prophecy 3, perks and equiment can have similar effects, so take it with a grain of salt.


    Misc / Diplomacy:


    • Every non-Charisma discipline gets you an order slot once you get high enough in it, but Martial's at 5 rather than 4.
    • If one of your opponents accepts 3 of your demands in a row, you may claim vendetta against him at any time.
    • If you win 3 vendettas (EDIT : this does not cover Single Combat vendettas, thanks to Heliocentric again) against the same opponent, you may claim Blood Feud against him. Blood Feuds are permanent and allow you to capture his stronghold, eliminating him from the game
      • You may also claim Blood Feud at any time against a neighboring opponent who only controls his stronghold's canton.

    • If you don't share a border with pandemonium, don't try to attack it with a flying legion if you aren't already excommunicated (This happened to a player in a game I was in, and it hurt to watch). It appears that you are only declared excommunicated at the very end of the turn, after the game checks to see if your legion can land in a legal space. Since you aren't yet excommunicated, it cannot land and gets destroyed as a result.
    • If you're going to be agressive in the first 10 turns, make sure you use the free threat list readjustments! Proper threat list management lets you cast rituals for cheaper and allows you to select from a wider range of vendetta conditions and prestige wagers.
    Last edited by Antares; 15-10-2012 at 06:11 PM.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    You should do 4 things every turn , no matter your intentions.

    Read the turn log, read about every item, relic, ritual and legion, scan the map, look at every Legion and place of power (friendly and hostile) , look for damage, reduced stats and equipped stuff. If an opponent with sorcerer raises wickedness the infernal attribute will go up one for example.

    Thirdly and just as importantly, check the shops. I don't care if you are broke, in a war or both if an item that desperately changes the game shows up you want to know.

    Fourth keep you choices open, don't just stick to what you decided, the very ground you stand on might change, but still plan ahead, but be prepared to be surprised.

    Edit: Starting Legion loyalty defaults to 10 but bribe rituals auto fail. This 10 can be modified by items. Destruction rituals are tested only against level.
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 25-08-2012 at 12:40 PM.
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  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    If you win 3 vendettas (I don't know if this covers single combat vendettas, although I assume it doesn't)
    It doesn't, only the land wars (cantons, pop and legion defeated).
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  4. #4
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    Posted in here since for some reason i dont have permission to post new topic!.
    I'm very new to game (got it last week). Just started 2 pbem games which look damn fun. Played vs ai a few times but find the ai fairly boring and predictable for most part but here a couple of questions if some pros could answer them.
    One ai game i had my praetor banished by a destruction ritual.

    So i guess my question is this.
    What are the possible defenses you can use for
    (a) Preventing your praetor being bribed/pilfered by another player.
    (b) Preventing your praetor being banished by a destruction player.
    It seems at a quick glance its possibly easier to defend vs being bribed than being banished.
    Not sure on how the rolls work in regards to both these scenarios with regards to loyalty or level or such as my head is spinning a little with many other rules!

    extra bonus question : i managed to beat the butcher in a praetor duel going heavy defense i think for the first 3 slots but when i fought queen of the damned i got obliterated i dont think i even did a single point of damage in just over 1 round to her using a leveled up haagenti (and that was even when i avoided her oath of retribution totally). Any tips for beating the champions in duels if you dont have any manuscripts?

    sorry if thats a lot but i gotta say the mechanics of the game are pretty interesting.
    Last edited by Flatline; 15-10-2012 at 05:20 AM.

  5. #5
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    It's impossible to keep a Praetor totally safe, ritual resistance traits help, not equipping the Praetor to a legion protects it by obscurity. There are relics that help too.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  6. #6
    Network Hub Antares's Avatar
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    I find that the best way to prevent things from getting pinched or banished is sticking them in your vault. They're not 100% safe there, but your opponent will need to use dark augury (at Prophecy lvl 2+) to peek into your vault first. If you can catch them trying to probe you you might have a couple of turns to beef up your defenses.
    As Heliocentric mentioned, there are, beyond the starting resistance traits which are pretty cost effective, some relics that add ritual resistance, and don't forget the Infernal Premonitions ritual (Prophecy 2), which gives you a boost against deceit rituals.

    Regarding Praetor strength, there's not much to it beyond using manuscripts and ensuring they fight as much as possible, as praetors appear to level up after every fight. There's also an event whose name escapes me and a ritual (Anointed of Ash, which is granted by the Goblet of The Traitor relic) that gives them a significant stat boost.

    New tips, this time on bidding!


    • When bidding above the minimum bid, extra souls count double.
    • In case of a tie, the highest ranked Archfiend wins. If there is still a tie, the Archfiend with the highest prestige wins. If there is still a tie and one of the remaining Archfiends is the current Regent, he wins. Otherwise, the auction is cancelled and the minimum bid raised for the next turn.
      Note that the phase in which a bid is submitted has no influence on the final result.
    • When one Archfiend outbids another, the loser (and only the loser, thanks to Heliocentric for the correction) is told about the winner's identity.
    Last edited by Antares; 15-10-2012 at 06:14 PM.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    A winner is not informed about losers on a bid. But otherwise a great set of tips.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  8. #8
    Network Hub Antares's Avatar
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    Are you sure about this? I remember winning an auction on a praetor and knowing who the loser was. It was a while ago, though, so I can't discount the possibility that I worked it out after the auction and misremembered. I'll check the manual when I get back from work and amend my post as needed.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Yes, very sure. They likely came to you complaining about you beating them. Happens to me alot because I AM A HIGH ROLLER *ahem*
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 15-10-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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  10. #10
    Network Hub Antares's Avatar
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    Well, the manual does not have anything to say about this, so I will defer to your expertise.
    On another note, THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING. Scheming mode, engage!

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antares View Post
    THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.
    That's such a good phrase to use anywhere.

    "-We're out of cookies.
    -THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING"

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tikey View Post
    That's such a good phrase to use anywhere.

    "-We're out of cookies.
    -THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING"
    The only instance i can think where it fails is to say it in answer to "THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING"

    eg

    Person 1: "THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING"
    Person 2: "THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING"

    Just doesn't fly.

    For protecting relics from grubby paws I strongly recommend shoving the relic in a ritual slot, not only do they need another level in prophesy to spot it (also as it has more possible outcomes at level 3 less chance they'll find out what they need to know) but also if they do spot it if you shove it back into your treasury before they attempt the loot it might actually get protected by it being mistargeted (need to test this theory).
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 15-10-2012 at 09:34 PM.
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  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Teacher teacher I have a question!

    When training praetors can you use more than one manuscript in one go or should I use different orders for different manuscripts?

  14. #14
    Network Hub Antares's Avatar
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    Yup, you can do it in one go.

    EDIT: Waaaaait a minute. Were those manuscript purchases yours? THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.

    God I love saying that
    Last edited by Antares; 22-10-2012 at 03:52 PM.

  15. #15
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kaira-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    The only instance i can think where it fails is to say it in answer to "THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING"

    eg

    Person 1: "THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING"
    Person 2: "THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING"

    Just doesn't fly.
    Of course it works, you now know that both are going to change their plans, which CHANGES EVERYTHING. Which introduces infinite recursion, but such is life in the world of mind-games.

    I actually have a quick question - when a legion has "<combat phase> twice"-ability, does the said combat phase happen twice in a row OR does the combat go a normal round and only after that the <combat phase> occurs again? I remember reading somewhere that it was the latter, but I haven't found any confirmation for it.

  16. #16
    Network Hub Antares's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira- View Post
    Of course it works, you now know that both are going to change their plans, which CHANGES EVERYTHING. Which introduces infinite recursion, but such is life in the world of mind-games.

    I actually have a quick question - when a legion has "<combat phase> twice"-ability, does the said combat phase happen twice in a row OR does the combat go a normal round and only after that the <combat phase> occurs again? I remember reading somewhere that it was the latter, but I haven't found any confirmation for it.
    It is the latter, and it was discussed somewhere in the Gameboys From Hell series IIRC, but I can't remember which particular episode it was in.

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Extra combat rounds happen after the normal ones, and in any effected orders.

    So!
    If melee twice:
    Ranged, melee, infernal, melee (round end)
    If melee twice +ranged twice :
    Ranged, melee, infernal, ranged, melee.
    If melee first +melee twice, ranged twice:
    Melee, ranged, infernal, melee, ranged
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  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    On the same vein.
    If you have two legion fighting
    Legion A has a melee twice modifier while Legion B has a skip first melee combat card.
    What happens? Both melee phases are skipped or just one?

    Also, What happens if two legions have a different "X Phase first"?
    I assume that it's applied the ability of the winner of the combat advantage. but is the other one discarded?
    I mean
    A: Melee first
    B: Infernal First
    A wins combat advantage so the order is
    Melee - Ranged - Infernal
    Or the other player attribute is considered and the order ends up being something like: Melee - Infernal - Ranged ?

  19. #19
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    This is from memory and I haven't tested things recently.

    Melee Twice
    Combat Order: Ranged, Melee, Infernal, Melee. Repeat.

    Melee Twice and Skip First Melee
    Combat Order: Ranged, Infernal, Melee. Ranged, Melee, Infernal, Melee.

    Melee First and Infernal First
    Combat Order: Melee, Infernal, Ranged. Repeat.
    Essentially Melee goes first because it would normally go first if the Melee First and Infernal First abilities weren't involved.

  20. #20
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    I have a question regarding the bottle of whispers artifact , or more precisely the shadow binding ritual you can cast with it.

    according to the wiki

    Shadow Binding Prevents all combat abilities (e.g. Ranged Last) a legion possesses from functioning in combat for a set number of turns. It works on both inherent abilities and those granted by attached praetors or artifacts. Counts as a deceit ritual for targeting and power roll purposes.

    So could i get some clarification this rituals effect.

    I'll assume that if it works it negates abilities such as melee first/ infernal twice etc which are either provided by artifacts or praetors or such.

    Does it also negate the +ranged or +melee etc abilites that artifacts and praetors boost a legion with?

    Also does it negate (block) combat cards if it is successful?
    Couldnt find enough info on it!

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