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  1. #181
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Malawi Frontier Guard's Avatar
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    Searching for suitable equipment without having it spoon-fed to you is shit game design? Are you seriously saying this?

    Yes, that particular encounter is badly balanced, but to turn around and get to that conclusion is absurd.

  2. #182
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malawi Frontier Guard View Post
    Searching for suitable equipment without having it spoon-fed to you is shit game design? Are you seriously saying this?

    Yes, that particular encounter is badly balanced, but to turn around and get to that conclusion is absurd.
    And folks wonder how we got to the "players are goldfish" school of game design.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  3. #183
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malawi Frontier Guard View Post
    Searching for suitable equipment without having it spoon-fed to you is shit game design? Are you seriously saying this?

    Yes, that particular encounter is badly balanced, but to turn around and get to that conclusion is absurd.
    When said equipment is not something that you can obtain by any way other than just just hoping you get lucky with a random item drop then yes it is - it's called grinding and grinding has and always will be shit design.
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  4. #184
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    It's an MMO. The whole point of the game is to get new gear. You can't call it shit game design if it's the main impetus for playing.
    There's a big difference between playing for an item you know you need that you will get when you meet the conditions and grinding. The former being a valid incentive and the latter something only Korean gamers enjoy.
    Virtual Pilot 3Dô NEVER NOT SCAM!

  5. #185
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    When said equipment is not something that you can obtain by any way other than just just hoping you get lucky with a random item drop then yes it is - it's called grinding and grinding has and be shit design.
    And you play MMOs because...?
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  6. #186
    Activated Node downgrade's Avatar
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    Karma vendors offer frequent upgrades to equipment, crafting and the TP are also valid ways to get what you need. Am I missing the grind part of GW2?

  7. #187
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downgrade View Post
    Karma vendors offer frequent upgrades to equipment, crafting and the TP are also valid ways to get what you need. Am I missing the grind part of GW2?
    I can get a full level 80 set - 6 pieces of rare armor - in any flavor I want for at most 1g65. So I have three: DPS, Survival and Farming.

    The Farming set is based on the Reddit suggestion that one set be for "magic find," and that maxing that out makes collecting drops much more efficient when you're out in the world.

    Meanwhile, I can make 1g65 even without the farming set in about an hour and a half. In fact, most of my cash goes to nonsense convenience and vanity items.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  8. #188
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    When said equipment is not something that you can obtain by any way other than just just hoping you get lucky with a random item drop then yes it is - it's called grinding and grinding has and always will be shit design.
    Or craft it yourself or buy it at the TP (nearly everything <lvl 70 is dirt cheap. You can get lvl 80 blue/green jewelry for <10s...). Or just dont bother because in regular PvE and story mode dungeons equipment does hardly make a difference until you hit lvl 70. Only when you've been grinding zones often enough or do explorable modes there's a point to either focus on glass cannon, vit/toughness or magic find.

  9. #189
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    On the Reddit link on the other thread, the guy argues that a set of toughness/vitality/healing gear makes a world of difference in such encounters. I concur with him.
    I'm sure it would and at higher levels it might even be a sensible approach, but this was a lvl 30 quest where there's very little room to switch traits around and expecting someone to go out and buy a whole new set of gear in order to balance out a 30 minute solo quest seems a bit daft. Considering the difficulty curve has been pretty smooth so far (played through the first 50 levels with two characters and my glass cannon warrior hasn't run into any problems like this with the Vigil quests) I'd guess it's just poor tuning/bugs that cause the occasional mess.

  10. #190
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    And you play MMOs because...?
    ...Because Guild Wars 2 was said to be almost zero grinding and therefore is the first MMO I've ever bought. I was told it wasn't going to be another slot machine simulator.

    There's a design flaw somewhere in this game basically - either the personal story isn't supposed to be played alone the whole way through (and the game doesn't ever suggest that for some reason), or there's items you're supposed to have that you would have never logically thought of before.

    That aside I like it, but that is a genuine, "Wait what the hell guys?!?" moment.
    Last edited by Shooop; 12-09-2012 at 07:02 PM.
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  11. #191
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    ...Because Guild Wars 2 was said to be almost zero grinding and therefore is the first MMO I've ever bought. I was told it wasn't going to be another slot machine simulator.
    And what did you expect to be doing? I'm honestly curious.

    I'm saying this as somebody who doesn't like grinding, has played enough MMOs to understand what constitutes grinding, and doesn't see GW2 as requiring anything approaching a grind.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  12. #192
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    And what did you expect to be doing? I'm honestly curious.

    I'm saying this as somebody who doesn't like grinding, has played enough MMOs to understand what constitutes grinding, and doesn't see GW2 as requiring anything approaching a grind.
    Mostly exploration and fighting. The beta I got into was almost nothing but that and a few side activities. I really, really hate to see it devolve into "Kill this enemy 80 times to get one piece of a key to get to the next area!" like Vindictus. Tell me it doesn't.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the game is fine for the most part but the difficult spike I just hit in the personal story is outlandish. I get the message, I'll try to get some help. But dammit devs, don't pull the rug out under me like that.
    Virtual Pilot 3Dô NEVER NOT SCAM!

  13. #193
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    Mostly exploration and fighting. The beta I got into was almost nothing but that and a few side activities. I really, really hate to see it devolve into "Kill this enemy 80 times to get one piece of a key to get to the next area!" like Vindictus. Tell me it doesn't.
    It doesn't.

    It doesn't have lockouts. It doesn't have tiered gear you can only get by raiding. It doesn't force you to grind in a fight against the random number generator. It doesn't make you do anything you don't want to do in order to get the stuff you want. The more people you play with, the more drops everybody gets, because drops are based on the player, not universal. Crafted gear equals everything out there, and low-level gear can be transmuted into high level gear. There are so many ways to get what you want, and the game practically throws it all at you in a constant river of loot.

    In fact, what you get from doing the hardmodes of instanced dungeons or PvP/WvW is unique-looking gear with mediocre stats, which you can then use as "skins" over whatever better gear you already have. That's it. You're literally dungeon-running for fashion.

    I mean, I understand the "wtf difficulty spike" of, say, Ascalon Catacombs, but the humor is that to prepare especially for that, even at 30, takes about ten minutes.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  14. #194
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    I really, really hate to see it devolve into "Kill this enemy 80 times to get one piece of a key to get to the next area!" like Vindictus. Tell me it doesn't.
    It does not if you don't want to. I hit level 80 a few days ago and still haven't ground anything. Sometimes I took a longer route because I knew I could kill some mobs along the way that might drop something helpful, but apart from that? Nothing but fresh experiences.

    Though, I started doing zones mostly in small groups with RPS chaps after about level 60 because it's way more fun that way. I've done all my Personal Quests alone so far but they are getting worse and worse and after the latest (lvl 74, horrible underwater level) bugged out right before the end I'm not in the mood to get back to it. Dungeons, too, have been a lot of fun with RPS, even when we died horribly.

    Out of sincere curiosity: did you play Kingdoms of Alamur and if so did you like it?

  15. #195
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Bankrotas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfenswan View Post
    Out of sincere curiosity: did you play Kingdoms of Alamur and if so did you like it?
    I'm interested where this is going. Since I liked KoA:R and like this too.

    This game does depend on personal view on it's questing system honestly. I don't know much about wow, I have maybe played it 1,5 combined and didn't like it, but stayed with people. However, from the start for me it felt distant and grinding. Mind you, I played on private servers mostly and never liked it's fundamentals. And if you view this like WoW, yes it might look as grindy, but to me, I look at it as mmo brawler x moba. Ah heck. who I'm kidding, can't write anything what I want to say in long text.
    In short game is great, it has flaws, but grind isn't one of them, it's a flaw of human personal view. My personal view, I see it as a game story, where you go with your character, not too hard learning basics and being cocky as hell, to wise thief, being still an asshole, but not as naiive as you used to be. He as a character begins to know his limitations and going from "I'm going to conquer all!" at level up to "I'm becoming stronger" is a significant change to me. I'm going through event's and points of interests just to see something whacky. Honestly, one of most fun I had, was in Lornar's pass, where you had to use a rifle and as a thief, it felt different and new, shooting lighting from it, what was even more fun. I kept the rifle long the event, I got it at had finished and had fun with way underpowered weapons, just because it was fun. Other guy could've remembered it just as "Oh I had to tag X ammount of imps and kill them to get reward and move on.", to me it was "Cool I can use a weapon, I usually can't and it shoots lighting!"
    Hear from the spirit-world this mystery:
    Creation is summed up, O man, in thee;
    Angel and demon, man and beast art thou,
    Yea, thou art all thou dost appear to be!
    http://ps2guides.besaba.com/

  16. #196
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    I'm interested where this is going. Since I liked KoA:R and like this too.
    I thought he might enjoy it more than GW2 if he hadn't tried it. I personally did not enjoy it too much, mostly because i got too much of the "Singleplayer MMO" vibe. I believe if it clicks for you you're really in for a blast, it just didn't to it for me.

  17. #197
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Bankrotas's Avatar
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    I really loved the combat, what was more than enough for me to like it. I'll not discuss KoA:R here, not that forum space, nor am I interested enough in it now, with GW2 out.
    Hear from the spirit-world this mystery:
    Creation is summed up, O man, in thee;
    Angel and demon, man and beast art thou,
    Yea, thou art all thou dost appear to be!
    http://ps2guides.besaba.com/

  18. #198
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Is the thief class just really, really terrible for solo play? Because the farther I go into the game the less effective my moves are against enemies and the more there seem to be of them. There's been more than a few times I started fighting one creature and 3 more who weren't even visible yet jumped in. That's the kind of difficulty spike I'm getting - everything I'm fighting is getting stronger and more numerous while I'm definitely not.

    Have I screwed myself from the very start just by making a bad choice of class?
    Virtual Pilot 3Dô NEVER NOT SCAM!

  19. #199
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Bankrotas's Avatar
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    Might be, that thiefs gameplay not be for you maybe.
    Hear from the spirit-world this mystery:
    Creation is summed up, O man, in thee;
    Angel and demon, man and beast art thou,
    Yea, thou art all thou dost appear to be!
    http://ps2guides.besaba.com/

  20. #200
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    The game gets harder for all classes as things progress. I had to made a dramatic change in the traits I was spec'ing to survive, otherwise I was simply unable to do anything.

    As Bankrotas said, maybe Thief just isn't for you, but before entirely giving up on the class I'd check out some builds for PvE on the net. Perhaps all you need is to change traits and switch out your weapons/utility skills.

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