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  1. #21
    Network Hub sendmark's Avatar
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    Yes that is the big strength of the mesmer atm, very good at surviving and wearing opponents down but not a nuker.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Powernoodles View Post
    Thanks. I'll give it a go next time I PvP.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powernoodles View Post
    almost forgot, if you use the prestige (torch stealth)and null field/5 from staff you will give you and nearby allies chaos armor when you leave stealth
    this one's very effective. my friend keeps on using it and it always work especially if everyone's on the same page when it's executed.

  4. #24
    I hit 20 over the weekend and tried a SPvP match to celebrate. I built for condition damage and utility and went in with a staff / scepter & torch combo.

    So... PvP is a bit mental, isn't it? Lots of things happening at once. Way more confusing than WoW, although that's probably just my inexperience. It was a lot of fun though. I felt exactly like I expected to - not a powerhouse but a team player who was difficult to kill. I got the "is on a rampage" announcement quite quickly on, simply by always adding a bit to team fights and never dying.

    There's a trait which summons a clone whenever you dodge, and this combined with mirror images, several stealth abilities like decoy or the torch (4) skill, and the scepter means that there can constantly be at least 2/3 clones of you running around and you're invisible whenever you need to be. When I got a moment in the clear, I'd pull out the staff and summon the warlock and a chaos field and try to do some actual damage. It worked ok but there's definitely a lot to get used to.

  5. #25
    aye nice description of mesmer play, it should feel like that indeed

    i now have a troll build with the signet that i can copy boons to allies together with runes of lyssa and our quickness ulti = lots of team fun ;D

  6. #26
    Some more sPvP last night with the mesmer. I built a straight up glass cannon power / crit build, maxing points into domination and dueling lines, with 10 in illusions, and runes of Rage throughout for the crit. The idea was to start off with some staff skills and then jump in with sword/pistol, using the Blurred Frenzy sword (2) to survive for a few seconds whilst hitting mantra of pain, mind wrack etc (you can pop all of these during blurred frenzy, interestingly). Decoy and pistol stun for an escape route should it all go wrong. Given that I was using the mantras, I specced for the 3 x use trait and used Mantra of Recovery too.

    Overall I did ok but I do wonder whether this isn't just too squishy to take into higher level play. When I caught someone with their pants down, I burst them down in no time, but against a big co-ordinated group I wouldn't last long.

    When I'm next in line for some PvP, I think I'm going to go with this build, which is intended as a mix between the power/crit option along with some more survivability and some phantasm traits. The idea would be to open single target engagements with the sword/pistol and quickly fire off a dodge plus (3) and (4) illusions, do some burst with a quick cry of frustration thrown in to get the confusion and vulnerability stacked, then back off and switch to staff and bring up the warlock, who with all this power and conditions on the target should hit like a truck. For group fights, I would hang back and just bring up the ranged phantasms and plug away at the group with the staff.

    In the meantime I've got my decoy and mass invisibility as get out of jail free cards if needed.

    The real danger here is that if the PVP gets its teeth into me, I may never leave level 20....
    Last edited by Beard Of Bees; 04-09-2012 at 10:32 AM.

  7. #27
    hehe i guess thats why im only lvl 8 when pvp was down and i did some pve out of boredom and the rest of my toons lvl1-2

    i just dont get a lot of satisfaction out of the pve story, slowly gaining all your skills, the flat interaction with pve enemies that due to AI always need less effort than a human player (and therefore less reward), the min maxing of gear (which i got so used to not caring about from being in the mists)

    idk without the beta weekends and such, if i had stayed away from pvp, i might have enjoyed pve like some are powering through it now, but once youve opened that pvp jar, gotten different builds, the runes and sigils, the entire game really laid out in front of you as you wish, well its just rly hard to turn your back to that and play a shitty lvl8 with crappy weapons which skills havent all been unlocked without runes/sigils/traits/etc

    even when pvp is down its sooo hard for me to motivate doing pve caus im playing with a fraction of the toon im used to and well ignorance is bliss so in this case a total curse when you cant use any of those cool utility spells/ultimate/combos/interaction between your playstyle and your build/etc that ur so used to pwning with in pvp...

    checked out your spec and its close to the kind of things i have in my builds aswell, one thing i would strongly advise against though is your mass invisibility.

    as an elite spell that will screw you over more than help you, simply because you lose capture point control when you are in stealth

    if you do this in a teamfight on mid point you can imagine what this means

    its just terribad ;x

    if a team desperately wants aoe fields a thief can take utility for this that doesnt cockblock his elite spot

    and this enables you to actually take the most imba elite in the game, period.

    the quickness field, 10seconds of quickness on a huge field, this will allow u to kill faster, revive faster, down faster, spam all your shit faster, increase your mates dps tenfold, etc etc

    way more impact than a couple of seconds of stealth that will make your team lose contestation of the point..

    oh and its also wonderful when u are 1V1 vs a thief for instance who thinks he can roflstom you, with it you will win, with the stealth field u will lose/survive at best(but lose control of capture point).

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    The only thing in PvE that is a bit annoying is the limitation in traitpoints. Skill unlocks were almost never an issue for me and you get your elite skill already at... 30 I think. I can see why people prefer one play mode over the other, given that they are pretty much different games. Maybe PvE just isn't for you.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic View Post
    The only thing in PvE that is a bit annoying is the limitation in traitpoints. Skill unlocks were almost never an issue for me and you get your elite skill already at... 30 I think. I can see why people prefer one play mode over the other, given that they are pretty much different games. Maybe PvE just isn't for you.
    think i outgrew the whole idea of grind, pretty sure i wud have been addicted to it and rushing different toons 10 years ago..
    but when you get older, or at least for me, i dont gain patience ;D i want things now caus time is fleeting, my clock is ticking

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    Play WvW with a small, focused group and have the best of both worlds?

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powernoodles View Post
    think i outgrew the whole idea of grind, pretty sure i wud have been addicted to it and rushing different toons 10 years ago.. but when you get older, or at least for me, i dont gain patience ;D i want things now caus time is fleeting, my clock is ticking
    Grind? I think I've missed something.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic View Post
    Grind? I think I've missed something.
    like i said, ive got every character slot occupied with a fully runed/sigiled/specced lvl80 for pvp(not the standard premade builds ;p), when i play pve with those i feel im grinding to get spells/traits/what have you that i have at 80 but now have to "grind back" to get..

    guess most people play the other way round and dont encounter that issue ^^

    and even gw2 isnt immune for the usual grind in pve, with my 1 lvl8 that i played pve with i always was a few levels behind my personal story and i had to "grind" to reach high enough level to do the next part of my story...

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powernoodles View Post
    like i said, ive got every character slot occupied with a fully runed/sigiled/specced lvl80 for pvp(not the standard premade builds ;p), when i play pve with those i feel im grinding to get spells/traits/what have you that i have at 80 but now have to "grind back" to get..
    Yeah, that's what I meant with "two different games". Clearly, PvE is designed for you to enjoy the feeling of growth while you progress through the different zones and personal quest line. Playing through content isn't grind for me, but the actual game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powernoodles View Post
    and even gw2 isnt immune for the usual grind in pve, with my 1 lvl8 that i played pve with i always was a few levels behind my personal story and i had to "grind" to reach high enough level to do the next part of my story...
    Like I said, I must have missed something. I have neither encountered the issue of being too low, nor did I have to grind. The way I do it is to play through the game. But maybe some people find that doing quest hearts and dynamic events is grind or a tiring experience.

    All in all your experience is nothing uncommon, I assume. There were many people - back in the days - that never felt that GW1 PvE meant anything and that PvP meant everything. I feel like it is a thing of beauty that the two modes can coexist and that you even are able - not forced - to bring your PvE character into PvP.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic View Post
    Yeah, that's what I meant with "two different games". Clearly, PvE is designed for you to enjoy the feeling of growth while you progress through the different zones and personal quest line. Playing through content isn't grind for me, but the actual game.

    Like I said, I must have missed something. I have neither encountered the issue of being too low, nor did I have to grind. The way I do it is to play through the game. But maybe some people find that doing quest hearts and dynamic events is grind or a tiring experience.

    All in all your experience is nothing uncommon, I assume. There were many people - back in the days - that never felt that GW1 PvE meant anything and that PvP meant everything. I feel like it is a thing of beauty that the two modes can coexist and that you even are able - not forced - to bring your PvE character into PvP.
    cudnt agree with you more, think its a very healthy approach, especially compared to WoW for instance..

    i like the main story, think the level of quality on storylines is much higher than what im used to in other MMOs so i wanted to pursue this "personal quest" and kind of ignore all the action happening left and right to me ;p (which lead to the lvl disparity)

    i hope one day maybe in a holiday ill be able to play pve decently because the world is beautiful and many things are well-done and i regret not being part of the bonanza now where every zone/heart/... is filled with players and together people are progressing through the game (and hope i wont regret it too much when/if i ever get to it and by then nobody is on those low lvls ;p) but until that day pvp is definately giving my fill now^^

  15. #35
    Some more sPVP last night, I experimented with this tanky phantasm build. The idea was basically to stay alive and let the illusions do all the work whilst I kited at range. It wasn't bad but didn't quite do the trick. I also built one for pure survivability and deception and it was hilarious how long it took people to kill me. In one game I regularly managed to lure four people away from capping a point and into chasing me down whilst I blinked, decoyed, cloned, healed and otherwise became a royal pain in the arse to kill. Bottom of the scoreboard but a valuable team effort I suppose.

    I'm still looking for that magic build that fits my playstyle nicely. I don't really like using the shatter skills and I don't like going either 100% glass cannon or 100% tanky as I'd quite like to be able to dish out some damage. I think a balanced build around survivability, with some power, will be best. I haven't yet explored the condition damage option as I'm not sure how viable this really is in PvP... any thoughts?

    Edit: Here's a go at a condition build which is based around using the scepter to apply confusion, and the torch for burning, with some Geomancy bleeds on weapon swaps, a bit of crit and Sharper Images for the illusions to apply bleeding too. I might try this out next time.
    Last edited by Beard Of Bees; 05-09-2012 at 11:28 AM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Powernoodles View Post
    one thing i would strongly advise against though is your mass invisibility.

    as an elite spell that will screw you over more than help you, simply because you lose capture point control when you are in stealth
    That... that's just stupid. Perhaps time to rethink this then. Like you the speed boost probably is favourite then. The Moa Bird thing is obviously powerful but just feels a bit wrong for me. In a one-on-one match-up, I'm fairly comfortable and probably don't need the bird; in a big group fight, it doesn't really do enough to turn the tide. Speed it is.

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    I tried some random sPvP with my Mesmer the other day and found it jolly good fun. Went with staff in one slot, scepter and torch in the other, Mirror Images, Blink, Decoy and Time Warp, mostly trying to keep enemies away from capture points and annoy them to death. I found I could usually whittle down single opponents, stealth and run away if I got ganged up on and Time Warp and Chaos Field combined seem like excellent group support in bigger scuffles.

    On the other hand, I feel like my Mesmer is pretty weak in solo PvE, especially against multiple enemies. Damage takes a long time to get going, it's hard to keep track of what my illusions are doing and what mob they "belong to", and the density of mobs combined with the (often) fast respawns means it's hard to kite things without just getting more on your tail, even if you've cleared a path behind you.

    Perhaps I'm doing something horribly wrong or perhaps I'm just spoiled by my other character being a warrior (who can simply burst down adds, soak damage and focus on dodging big attacks) but while I find the Mesmer really enjoyable and the mechanics intresting it's pretty hard work.

  18. #38
    yep ive noticed also ive had good killing times on the pve boss in pvp (chieftain svanir) but have also had goes where its quite shit/slow

    seems to me its a matter of my build and the fact that if my build is more of a counterbuild there is less for me to counter and gain strength from that in a pve setting (chaos armor for instance reaches max potential when a ranger derps u with super fast shooting and barely means fuck all to a slow swing timer pve giant)

    the quickness field however i feel cud technically make u tackle more enemies than the average of other professions, and wonder if its feasable or not for pve (no experience there so dont know xD)

    if you could "pull" multiple enemies, throw your quickness down summon all your minions (pistol/torch/staff/whatever minion summoning uve got) followed with sword 2 which does aoe to all close enuf and makes you evade (and goes hella fast with quickness xD) while your pistol duelist(s) are shooting like crazy uve got confusion stacked everywhere (in my build phantasms also giving retal) basically making them finish themselves off when they use their programmed abilities ^^

    beyond that i seriously have no clue pve wise how to "pwn" ;p

    perhaps combination of staff for fields with scepter pistol for duelist and the other great abilities those weapons have, in a field/phantasm build that gives some more power/cdr/... to both

    pve enemies dont tend to go out of fire on the ground as much as enemies in a competitive setting do and the pistol duelist combo-ing with those fields shud be a nice boost xD

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    If I need to get some damage going fast on hard mobs I usually do something like:

    Start with sword and torch
    Mirror Images, Illusionary Leap, Swap (this gets three clones up almost instantly)
    Cry of Frustration (dazes and damages everything)
    Blurred Frenzy (burst damage and immunity as I'm now in melee range)
    Phantasmal Mage
    Swap to staff
    Phantasmal Warlock
    Chaos Field
    Phase Retreat (inside the chaos field for Chaos Armour)

    At that point whatever I'm fighting is either dead or severely crippled, I have three illusions up, a bunch of boons and it's mostly a matter of staying out of/interrupting bad stuff and keeping the pressure up.

    Alternatively I'll start with the staff out and try to get a lot of conditions and boons running, then move in to burst things down with the sword.

    Where I run into troubles is that a lot of mobs simply 1-shot my illusions (I've had three being taken out in one swing by a veteran Ettin) and I'm forced to shatter them early so that they're not just wasted. This wrecks the damage I put out and if I have to start stealthing and hiding I'm not doing much to damage to whatever I'm fighting. Kiting is always an option except it usually means running into even more monsters as the repop rates are often extremely fast.

    Most of the time it's pretty easy though, and it's getting easier to keep things up as I'm gaining more traits and just plain getting better at keeping track of everything from cooldowns to what my illusions are doing. It's a lot of fun and I never feel like I get stuck in a routine and just cycling through skills, which is a very good thing for an MMO.
    Last edited by Skalpadda; 06-09-2012 at 03:57 PM.

  20. #40
    ah ofc the lack of maximum traits in pve, keep forgetting...

    good description!

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