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  1. #721
    Lesser Hivemind Node johnki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeltdownInteractiveMedia View Post
    The world needs more full loot PVP MMO's. Too many cookie cutter MMO's like Guild Wars 2 and SWTOR out there.. not enough innovation.. DarkFall and Mortal Online are at least innovative.. which can't be said for much of the rest of the genre.
    Actually, while I can't really comment on Mortal (I played in the beta and pre-ordered, but I never really got a chance to actually play due to the desync issues lasting until shortly before launch...and man they were bad), Darkfall is hardly innovative. And what's more, Darkfall is one of the grindiest MMOs out there, the combat is shallow, and the playerbase is absolutely intolerable. I understand the want for full-loot PvP MMOs, but Darkfall is hardly that sanctuary.

  2. #722
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Everybody says they want more full loot FFAPvP MMOs, until they play full loot FFAPvP MMOs.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  3. #723
    Lesser Hivemind Node johnki's Avatar
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    A case could be made that it's because no one's done it right yet. Only time will tell, of course, but I've heard good things about an old canceled MMO called Magic of the Gods that happened to get it right, letting people fight over whatever they wanted whenever they wanted with player-run governmental systems. Apparently it worked really well.

    Maybe it's just that you have to find the right audience.

    But in general, I do agree that FFA PvP MMOs generally do end up being a bad experience, mostly because of the obvious repercussions of the systems involved.

  4. #724
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnki View Post
    A case could be made that it's because no one's done it right yet. Only time will tell, of course, but I've heard good things about an old canceled MMO called Magic of the Gods that happened to get it right, letting people fight over whatever they wanted whenever they wanted with player-run governmental systems. Apparently it worked really well.

    Maybe it's just that you have to find the right audience.

    But in general, I do agree that FFA PvP MMOs generally do end up being a bad experience, mostly because of the obvious repercussions of the systems involved.
    The only one I can think of that did it half-right was UO, for the simple reason that characters capped out in ability not too far along in the game. Every other one is doomed to eat its young for the simple reason that there's practically no ability for newbies to reach parity with those who have years' history to lord over them, and every reason for those who got in on the ground floor to mop the floor with newbies repeatedly. They're actively working against the churn that keeps MMOs alive by making sure the newbie's experience is as painful as possible.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  5. #725
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    If that's your complaint, look at Darkfall Unholy Wars. It's certainly more 'carebear' than the original Darkfall, there are 100% safezones (starter cities) and a much smaller grind. Ever since Darkfall I can't play any other MMO, they don't give me the adrenaline and impact I desire. It gives me both my action fix and MMO fix in one game.

  6. #726
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    Dream, one of first batch of games to be greenlit, is now on kickstarter with a release date of september 2014. Valve should create a mechanism to avoid games so far from release from being approved.

  7. #727
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allanschnorr View Post
    Dream, one of first batch of games to be greenlit, is now on kickstarter with a release date of september 2014. Valve should create a mechanism to avoid games so far from release from being approved.
    I don't think they should be stopped if they're far in development, the very idea behind greenlight is that it's a pitch, and it can be a pitch of a finished or nearly finished game, or of a game that's still in pre-production, an idea waiting to blossom and looking for some input.

    However, if the dev suddenly runs to KickStarter because he needs the money to make the game, which means the game might never see the light of day if the KickStarter drops, imho should be grounds for being sent to the backburner again, and only reconsidered if the KickStarter succeeds.

  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rauten View Post
    I don't think they should be stopped if they're far in development, the very idea behind greenlight is that it's a pitch, and it can be a pitch of a finished or nearly finished game, or of a game that's still in pre-production, an idea waiting to blossom and looking for some input.

    However, if the dev suddenly runs to KickStarter because he needs the money to make the game, which means the game might never see the light of day if the KickStarter drops, imho should be grounds for being sent to the backburner again, and only reconsidered if the KickStarter succeeds.
    I consider that approving a game that still will be in development for at least one more year and does not have at least a playable beta is too much. In this case, Valve could dop the same thing they did to that Slenderman game with copyright issues: keep the game on greenlight. Once they have a playable build or something else to show that the game exists and is not only a concept, approve them.

  9. #729
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    Steam greenlight is a pretty neat tool. It helps small indie developers get their games out there, but it is regulated by a community of gamers that decide what they want to play.

    Take the game I've been working on, Dark Storm. A first person shooter being developed by a few friends and i that have expertise in certain fields of development. When it is finished, we will release it to Steam greenlight, and then it can be posted on Steam for the community to play.



    Our game is the sort of game we want to play. An exciting first person shooter that is made well and designed with elements that we think other people will enjoy too. Check out this concept art, drawn by one of the artists working on Dark Storm



    Steam greenlight is a great way for small developers, like us, to get our game out there.

    Its totally cool if you want to check Dark Storm out some more, fyi
    http://www.adarkstormiscoming.com

  10. #730
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Spammy Advertising

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...ings-Like-That

    Go there if you want to spam the boards up. Otherwise, at least PRETEND you are here for something other than being a glorified spambot.
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  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...ings-Like-That

    Go there if you want to spam the boards up. Otherwise, at least PRETEND you are here for something other than being a glorified spambot.
    How do you post in that forum anyway? Don't see a new thread button.

  12. #732
    Lesser Hivemind Node internetonsetadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Bad spam
    You might want to have more to show for your game than a Kickstarter that you cancelled and a read-more entry on your site for a nonexistent article promoting a nonexistent Greenlight page before you begin your spam campaign. People might get the impression that you don't know what the fuck you're doing.

  13. #733
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    A cancelled Kickstarter? Well now I know for sure then. This is almost as much as a scam as WarZ.

    The bot goes on to say they'll have a full game done by March in another of his spam posts in the "Indie games you're looking forward to" thread.
    Virtual Pilot 3Dô NEVER NOT SCAM!

  14. #734
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    I'm amazed that when gamers make their own game with full artistic freedom to do what they want they end up making totally generic characters.

  15. #735
    Lesser Hivemind Node Shooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tikey View Post
    I'm amazed that when gamers make their own game with full artistic freedom to do what they want they end up making totally generic characters.
    Potential.

    Not everyone gets to be an astronaut when they grow up.
    Virtual Pilot 3Dô NEVER NOT SCAM!

  16. #736
    Lesser Hivemind Node johnki's Avatar
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    http://store.steampowered.com/app/211280/

    I'm officially losing faith in Greenlight (and Steam) when there are still loads of games that look as generic as that one getting through.
    Last edited by johnki; 08-01-2013 at 05:39 PM.

  17. #737
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnki View Post
    That developer has other (mostly poorly rated) titles on Steam already.
    Looking for you daily bundle fix? Join us on The onward march of bundles
    Stalk my Steam profile, or follow my fight against the backlog on HowLongToBeat.

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  18. #738
    Lesser Hivemind Node johnki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    That developer has other (mostly poorly rated) titles on Steam already.
    Yeah, I saw that after ranting here and on Twitter.

    It's still cause for concern that a developer with consistently poorly-rated games, who is indie to a degree (they advertised Primal Fears on the OGRE forums...), is being put on Steam while other, more proven indies, are getting shoved onto Greenlight.

  19. #739
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    Valve are basically being dishonest about the whole 'how we accept games to Steam' situation - by saying there's no way other than through Greenlight (which is almost certainly not true now and cannot remain true forever) AND by making Greenlight into a pure popularity contest (which they've shown they're happy to rig as they feel like it) they're actually causing more harm than I think they realise.

    I've spoken to a few indies who've simply written-off getting onto Steam - they knew it would be hard, they knew their odds before were poor but now they KNOW they won't make it - Greenlight makes that crystal clear to them - and so in some cases they aren't even trying.

    Early-on, Greenlight was good publicity but it's now a deadzone - unsurprising when there's zero incentive for people to use it.

    All of these games become more content for bundles - more games for other sites to carry and so on. It's not great for the developers BUT I reckon the really good games may succeed anyway.

    I'm guessing Valve things they can play "Johnny come lately" and get games onto Steam IF the developer manages to make the game a success without them - but as one indie said to me

    "If I could attract the level of attention which Greenlight requires for acceptanve - I wouldn't need Valve at all"

    Once a game has already had some success, a developer can hardball Valve for a better commission rate too - thus the game costs more and everyone 'loses'.

  20. #740
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    I'm pretty sure that Valve is still getting games the old fashioned way. I'm also pretty sure that Valve actually mentioned that they were still doing it.

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