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[ColOfNature]

Charming. And you're clearly an idiot. "Gamer" isn't an ideology.

[Kadayi]

"Gamer" isn't an ideology.

Kind of rich talk coming from you tbh. After all aren't you the one attempting to bend the industry to your vision? Boycott this, boycott that? Whose the idealist in this situation? I'm merely commenting on a state of being. Unless you write you're not a writer, unless you game you're not a gamer. You don't game.

[Jesus_Phish]

But he does, just not to the degree of others?

I read at a very slow pace because most of my time is taken up by gaming. Am I not a reader? I also don't read books in genres I don't like. Am I not a reader? At what percentage of playing available games/reading available books do we qualify to use the tag "real gamer" under our signatures?

[Kadayi]

I read at a very slow pace because most of my time is taken up by gaming. Am I not a reader? I also don't read books in genres I don't like. Am I not a reader? At what percentage of playing available games/reading available books do we qualify to use the tag "real gamer" under our signatures?

I think where you're finding reasons not to play a game that are external to the quality of the game itself then I'd say there's a question mark over your investment in the medium.

[ColOfNature]

I was going to rant about "investment in the medium" and how it's entertainment and you should really get over yourself, and why my avoiding certain publishers (more or less, unless they release something I really want) is hardly an attempt to bend the world to my whim. But then I thought, as I'm sure many have before me, "I'm not going to argue with a cunt like Kadayi. He's not worth the effort". And I immediately felt much better.

[NathanH]

I was going to argue with Kadayi on your behalf, but then I arrived at the same conclusion.

[Kadayi]

All I see is a couple of guys without a viable counter argument.

[deano2099]

I think the point is some people put playing the games above any idealogical concerns about what the industry should be. Other people take certain moral standpoints (or even fanboyish adherance to a single platform) and will not play some games they'd otherwise play because of that.

Both those standpoints are valid, but I think the former is more concerned with playing games while the latter is more concerned about the industry as a whole. Whether that makes the former more of a real gamer I can't even say.

I certainly prefer gaming on the PC, for example, but of course I own all three consoles because how else would I play Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, Uncharted, Super Mario Galaxy, etc.

[Kadayi]

Both those standpoints are valid, but I think the former is more concerned with playing games while the latter is more concerned about the industry as a whole. Whether that makes the former more of a real gamer I can't even say.

Because there's more constructive meat in the former rather than the latter Dean. People can come up with innumerable reasons as to why they won't buy something, but beyond personal chest beating about whose the more holy in the temple courtyard what exactly does it achieve? I mean Ubisoft revoked their always on DRM over a year ago yet go a few posts up and there's Col of Nature going on about how he won't buy their titles. What's the reason now? Hurt feelings? It's laughable the shit these clowns come up with.

[johnki]

Look, we all play games, and we all seem to play games pretty religiously.

Part of the whole "eschewing this and that" is our passion for gaming and refusing to support people who really don't give a damn about the people who are, you know, funding their further efforts by buying their shit.

The people who make the game are important. The same way people will refuse to see movies based on actors, or even directors. It's just knowing those people were involved and supporting their brand of screwing the consumer kinda makes some peoples' skin crawl.

And part of being a "true" anything is caring about all this stuff. Part of being a music buff is learning all the people's names from the band, learning who produced it, learning that the singer used to run a farm where they killed puppies. Part of being a movie buff is learning the names of the actors, and the director, and all that.

And part of being a gamer is learning to give a damn about all of this stuff that we've been talking about.

[Kadayi]

And part of being a "true" anything is caring about all this stuff. Part of being a music buff is learning all the people's names from the band, learning who produced it, learning that the singer used to run a farm where they killed puppies. Part of being a movie buff is learning the names of the actors, and the director, and all that.

Killing puppies? Really? The defense to your absurdity is to go for the surreal? No ones died as a result of DRM in games as far as I'm aware. You make out that it's some terrible crime, but it's no different that any other business attempting to protect their bottom line. Do you protest your local supermarket for employing security guards, employing item tags and bleeper gates? Do you feel that their very presence means they are marking you out as a criminal?

[Nalano]

And part of being a "true" anything is caring about all this stuff. Part of being a music buff is learning all the people's names from the band, learning who produced it, learning that the singer used to run a farm where they killed puppies.

Pertinent:

[deano2099]

Because there's more constructive meat in the former rather than the latter Dean. People can come up with innumerable reasons as to why they won't buy something, but beyond personal chest beating about whose the more holy in the temple courtyard what exactly does it achieve? I mean Ubisoft revoked their always on DRM over a year ago yet go a few posts up and there's Col of Nature going on about how he won't buy their titles. What's the reason now? Hurt feelings? It's laughable the shit these clowns come up with.

I dunno. I think some of that chest beating might be part of the reason Ubisoft did dump that DRM, but who knows for sure.

And part of being a "true" anything is caring about all this stuff. Part of being a music buff is learning all the people's names from the band, learning who produced it, learning that the singer used to run a farm where they killed puppies. Part of being a movie buff is learning the names of the actors, and the director, and all that.

And part of being a true true music/film buff is being able to enjoy the thing despite the external baggage attached to it? I still like Morrissey's music though I find the man to be an insufferable arsehole. Ditto U2. Bernard Manning was an awful racist but he was a brilliant gag writer.

[Hypernetic]

I think where you're finding reasons not to play a game that are external to the quality of the game itself then I'd say there's a question mark over your investment in the medium.

I don't think so. Generally speaking you would be correct, but in some cases not so much. If I don't agree with the business practices of a company (like say using child labor or foreign labor with poor working/living conditions) that is a valid reason to not support that company by giving them my money. Obviously those extremes don't exist in game development (although they do in the production of the hardware we play our games on), a lot of companies do treat their employees like shit and other such business.

I am not personally boycotting any game publisher or developer though, just playing devil's advocate.

[deano2099]

You rarely see people boycotting games or even getting that angry about worker conditions though when it comes to gaming. Even though a lot of the crunch conditions are awful. It's generally DRM and DLC.

[Jesus_Phish]

I don't think so. Generally speaking you would be correct, but in some cases not so much. If I don't agree with the business practices of a company (like say using child labor or foreign labor with poor working/living conditions) that is a valid reason to not support that company by giving them my money. Obviously those extremes don't exist in game development (although they do in the production of the hardware we play our games on), a lot of companies do treat their employees like shit and other such business.

I am not personally boycotting any game publisher or developer though, just playing devil's advocate.

But man, those Nikes are so comfortable. And Nestle chocolate is just the best!

[Nalano]

And part of being a true true music/film buff is being able to enjoy the thing despite the external baggage attached to it? I still like Morrissey's music though I find the man to be an insufferable arsehole. Ditto U2. Bernard Manning was an awful racist but he was a brilliant gag writer.

Pertinent.

You rarely see people boycotting games or even getting that angry about worker conditions though when it comes to gaming. Even though a lot of the crunch conditions are awful. It's generally DRM and DLC.

I do. I think it's a damn shame that the software world isn't unionized, and that unpaid overtime with no job security is the name of the game. And I've mentioned that before, on several occasions, on this very forum.

[Kadayi]

I dunno. I think some of that chest beating might be part of the reason Ubisoft did dump that DRM, but who knows for sure.

What I found particularly amusing was the continued chest beating about it despite the fact Ubi had dropped it over a year ago. I'm even more tickled that there are people even now still citing it as a reason to continue to boycott Ubi.

And part of being a true true music/film buff is being able to enjoy the thing despite the external baggage attached to it? I still like Morrissey's music though I find the man to be an insufferable arsehole. Ditto U2. Bernard Manning was an awful racist but he was a brilliant gag writer.

Most musicians are generally cocks on the whole. I'm hard pressed to think of any who come across as anything less than odious half the time. But I think that's a bi-product of fame and a certain amount of adulation. After years of it there's clearly a tendency to let it go completely to their heads. However as you rightly say what matters is the product, not the person. I don't have much time for Bono (forever immortalized in that southpark episode) but I can't deny that U2 have produced some great tunes over the years.

[deano2099]

I do. I think it's a damn shame that the software world isn't unionized, and that unpaid overtime with no job security is the name of the game. And I've mentioned that before, on several occasions, on this very forum.

Well yeah, but you don't not buy games because of that, or else you wouldn't ever buy any games.

It's also worth noting that Orson Scott Card's involvement in Shadow Complex ruffled some feathers, but far fewer than when Bioware announces Day-one DLC.

[Nalano]

Well yeah, but you don't not buy games because of that, or else you wouldn't ever buy any games.

It's also worth noting that Orson Scott Card's involvement in Shadow Complex ruffled some feathers, but far fewer than when Bioware announces Day-one DLC.

I'm finding it funny how Kadayi gigs me on my purchasing decisions and outspoken nature - cuz I'm a corporation-hating flag-burning rabblerouser - and you just broad-stroke paint me in with the general observation about how boycotts are rarely effective - cuz I'm a corporation-ambivalent consumer sheeperson.

I let politics affect my purchasing decisions. I'm also very much on the side of letting piracy be my consumer advocacy group. Hell, I haven't purchased anything from Blizzard or Ubisoft in years. I'm also very much in the business of rewarding Valve because they are, by far, the fairest publisher out there. Am I hard-line about it? More than Gundato, less than Vinraith.

Also, who cares about Orson Scott Card? Paternalist claptrap back in the age of rose-tinted futurism.