Page 43 of 47 FirstFirst ... 334142434445 ... LastLast
Results 841 to 860 of 936
  1. #841
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,342
    Just to clear something up - I've been talking with a few developers who've been in Greenlight for a while now, and one of them said something VERY telling.

    He'd done the maths and worked-out how many people had to visit his Greenlight page in order that be make it into the top 10-ish and have a chance at being picked (given that the "ooh look - a new game - choose that" isn't going to happen to him).

    I forget his exact figure but it was in the region of 150,000 people.

    His comment was

    "If I had 150,000 people interested in buying my game - I wouldn't need Steam at all"

    and I think that summarizes Greenlight in a nutshell - for users of Steam it's a tiresome survey with a stupid question at the heart of it - for the developers it's a dog-and-pony show cum popularity contest

    Worst of all - just having a Greenlight page is - according to those who've studied it - not really very effective at promoting your game - e.g. no-one is using Greenlight to discover new games and - given that most games are not yet available - I'm not terribly surprised by that.

    Steam could have done SO much better - what they have is barely worth bothering with.

    Apart from anything else - their policy of never removing a game from Greenlight is going to turn it into some sort of gaming graveyard at some point!?

  2. #842
    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Apart from anything else - their policy of never removing a game from Greenlight is going to turn it into some sort of gaming graveyard at some point!?
    Yeah, that's really weird ;D, like they wanna brag that they are games that actually made it through the Greenlight process ;).

  3. #843
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Terra Australis Incognita
    Posts
    4,494
    Quote Originally Posted by MeltdownInteractiveMedia View Post
    The Steam community is your customer base, and the people who are going to buy your title once it's been Greenlit. There is no better user base to determine the viability of your title.
    How many people who vote for a game on Greenlight are actually going to buy it when it's on Steam? For the titles that are already available elsewhere, those who are interested and who are likely to vote for it have probably bought it already anyway. Getting it Greenlit and onto Steam just opens it up to the impulse buyers who are otherwise unaware of it. The other Greenlight games aren't finished or have devs that are holding out purely for Steam, so there's no indication that every Greenlight vote is a purchase either. It's a silly numbers game which only demonstrates how many people want it on Steam, not how many people will actually buy it. Even then the people who frequent Greenlight are probably a smaller segment of the entire Steam userbase, just the same as the people who use the Steam forums (that cesspit!) are a small segment.

    Quote Originally Posted by MeltdownInteractiveMedia View Post
    There are always exceptions of course. But in 95% of cases Steam will provide better exposure.
    Perhaps, but being posted on major sites like RPS or mentioned in a TB podcast is going to have a much greater impact than having a dime-a-dozen Greenlight page saying "Vote for my game because it's a game and I want to be on Steam!" Of course most games won't make it onto RPS because they're simply not very notable.

    Oh, wait, RPS posted about that bullshit Unity game with the dinosaur and horrible character physics. I retract that, just pretend to be an art game and RPS will post about you. (Don't ban me Ros, just calling it how I see it!)
    Nalano's Law - As an online gaming discussion regarding restrictions grows longer, the probability of a post likening the topic to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea approaches one.
    Soldant's Law - A person will happily suspend their moral values if they can express moral outrage by doing so.

  4. #844
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Just to clear something up - I've been talking with a few developers who've been in Greenlight for a while now, and one of them said something VERY telling.

    He'd done the maths and worked-out how many people had to visit his Greenlight page in order that be make it into the top 10-ish and have a chance at being picked (given that the "ooh look - a new game - choose that" isn't going to happen to him).

    I forget his exact figure but it was in the region of 150,000 people.

    His comment was

    "If I had 150,000 people interested in buying my game - I wouldn't need Steam at all"
    150k visitors or voters? if visitors, then this figure keeps coming down. for the first top #10 150,000 people wouldn't have been remotely enough whereas now, its even less than 150,000.

    About voters vs buyers. obviously, i cant tell if those that voted yes also bought the game, but regarding Towns, we have about X2 more buyers than yes voters. it would be interesting to see what is the ratio in other games. although, i imagine that the latest games needed far less yes votes than the first batch needed so its also a skewed number.
    Last edited by burningpet; 01-06-2013 at 10:20 AM.

  5. #845
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Minsk, Belarus
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by burningpet View Post
    150k visitors or voters? if visitors, then this figure keeps coming down. for the first top #10 150,000 people wouldn't have been remotely enough whereas now, its even less than 150,000.

    About voters vs buyers. obviously, i cant tell if those that voted yes also bought the game, but regarding Towns, we have about X2 more buyers than yes voters. it would be interesting to see what is the ratio in other games. although, i imagine that the latest games needed less yes votes than the first batch needed so its also a skewed number.
    burninngpet, thanks for sharing this information. And yes, that would be interesting to know how many actually other projects sell compared to the number of yes votes. I actually would think that sales would be less than yes votes because it seems many vote out of sympathy and not really answering the question: "Would you buy this game if it were available in Steam?"

  6. #846
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,252
    On the other hand, the audience for the Steam store vastly outnumbers the Greenlight voters, so a game that's been greenlit is likely to gain a lot of sales from the people who haven't heard about it before. Relatively, that is. If I had to guess, I'd say an average 25% of Greenlight voters would actually buy the game once it's greenlit, and if the game isn't especially hyped I'd expect that number of sales to be matched by the people who bought it but never saw it on Greenlight.

    An interesting statistic to have would be the number of sales to the people who voted 'yes' for it on Greenlight. Valve ought to get on that.
    Last edited by LTK; 13-05-2013 at 02:37 PM.

  7. #847
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Minsk, Belarus
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by LTK View Post
    On the other hand, the audience for the Steam store vastly outnumbers the Greenlight voters, so a game that's been greenlit is likely to gain a lot of sales from the people who haven't heard about it before. Relatively, that is. If I had to guess, I'd say an average 25% of Greenlight voters would actually buy the game once it's greenlit, and if the game isn't especially hyped I'd expect that number of sales to be matched by the people who bought it but never saw it on Greenlight.
    You are right! But I would think that if a game is not promoted enough then there will be no significant increase in sales. Also, some games seem to do well on other platforms too, I think Legend of Grimrock did really well on GOG.

  8. #848
    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    and I think that summarizes Greenlight in a nutshell - for users of Steam it's a tiresome survey with a stupid question at the heart of it - for the developers it's a dog-and-pony show cum popularity contest

    Worst of all - just having a Greenlight page is - according to those who've studied it - not really very effective at promoting your game - e.g. no-one is using Greenlight to discover new games and - given that most games are not yet available - I'm not terribly surprised by that.
    Totally anecdotal, but I do check Greenlight now and again, probably three times a month or so, and other than RPS it's probably where I learn about most stuff that might interest me. It's where I first saw The Forest, Infra, and Cradle, all of which I'm now eager to play, and probably will even if they don't end up on Steam.

  9. #849
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,342
    Hmmm - if you're created a Greenlight page, don't think getting a publisher will get you onto Steam any quicker...

    http://indiegames.com/2013/05/develo...as_reject.html

    I can't help thinking, assuming he's correct, that Valve are taking the 'popularity contest' thing a bit far - if this is true it will make EVERY game on Greenlight less desirable to publishers - and thus they just ensured some interesting games won't get on there.

    Footshot...

  10. #850
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    201
    Totally crashing the only part that was interesting in greenlight, and that was a sort of platform for developers to build a community and gain visibility by showing your game to the world as it unfolds, much like what IndieDB is for.

    With greenlight half decent traffic as it is now (as opposed to when it just launched), i can't see how it will be worth it to any developer to publish a greenlight page until the game is finished and has not attracted a publisher. this will just further reduce greenlight games list and hence its traffic.

  11. #851
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    35
    Steam Greenlight is a great tool.

  12. #852
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    People's Republic of Germany
    Posts
    2,577
    Five more games greenlit today: FRACT OSC, Haunt, Inquisitor, Ohm Studio and Rogue Legacy. Ohm Studio is actually some music software.
    Old hat! A Steam curator page focusing on Immersive Sims WIP
    Antique! The Fall of Infinite Games 2014 - A handy release schedule for the dark season.
    Recently updated! Thrust Issues: A Marvelous Guide to Fencing in Dark Souls 2

    to wound the autumnal city.

  13. #853
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus pakoito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Spainishtan
    Posts
    1,850
    No divekick, no Dominions 3, greenlight still sucks.

  14. #854
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Minsk, Belarus
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Hmmm - if you're created a Greenlight page, don't think getting a publisher will get you onto Steam any quicker...

    http://indiegames.com/2013/05/develo...as_reject.html

    I can't help thinking, assuming he's correct, that Valve are taking the 'popularity contest' thing a bit far - if this is true it will make EVERY game on Greenlight less desirable to publishers - and thus they just ensured some interesting games won't get on there.

    Footshot...
    Hmm, how about Expeditions: Conquistador? They were on Greenlight, didn't go so well, they went to bitComposer and they were released on Steam 2 days ago. It might depend on the publisher, how big or influential they are.

  15. #855
    Network Hub
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    201
    Well, so could it all just be Valve giving a poor reason for actually not wanting that game on Steam without thinking the consequences of the reason given?

  16. #856
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by Aterdux View Post
    Hmm, how about Expeditions: Conquistador? They were on Greenlight, didn't go so well, they went to bitComposer and they were released on Steam 2 days ago. It might depend on the publisher, how big or influential they are.
    Good point. Conquistador was a flog initially.

  17. #857
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,342
    Valve haven't exactly excelled themselves around Greenlight when it comes to honesty and transparency

    They've said time after time that Greenlight is the ONLY way onto Steam unless you already have an agreement in place or work with them (e.g. publishers and some, but not all, indies)

    Then games start appearing where that was clearly impossible

    Then they talk about the importance of the crowd voting-up games and choose games the crowd didn't vote-up at all (Darkfall leaps to mind but there have been others)

    I'm not sure why they bother with this - it's clear they are just going to pick the games they like the look of anyway - in some ways, if they said that I've have more time for them.

    As it is they're wasting everyone's time and coming across as dishonest - not an amazing result that.

  18. #858
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    75
    So Rogue Legacy just got greenlit. How long does it take from being greenlit to being up for sale?

  19. #859
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,342
    Quote Originally Posted by noxnoctum View Post
    So Rogue Legacy just got greenlit. How long does it take from being greenlit to being up for sale?
    Varies ENORMOUSLY - there are games from the first batch of Greenlights (250+ days ago) which aren't yet available. Of course it's not required for a Greenlight game to be finished - so actually doing that comes first.

    Check my magic spreadsheet for details

    http://www.shrewdlogarithm.com/greenlight.htm

    It now tracks when things are GL and Released - handy that ;)

    p.s. the obvious oddity is Black Mesa - it melted my server, such was the popularity of it, and yet 250+ days later it's not on Steam?

  20. #860
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    People's Republic of Germany
    Posts
    2,577
    There's really nothing but the entrance fee to stop you from putting whatever on greenlight. Sometimes the games are already done, sometimes not even begun. That's right, greenlight is even more useless than you thought it was.
    Old hat! A Steam curator page focusing on Immersive Sims WIP
    Antique! The Fall of Infinite Games 2014 - A handy release schedule for the dark season.
    Recently updated! Thrust Issues: A Marvelous Guide to Fencing in Dark Souls 2

    to wound the autumnal city.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •