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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    It's not the team, it's you. If you're playing in a public league you're playing against people who have been playing this game for a couple of years, and you've only got a handful of matches in. It takes a while to get the hang of - it took me a surprising number of games just to grasp the intricacies of how assists work.

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Screwie's Avatar
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    That might be a good topic to discuss actually - which is the best team to use in order to learn about...
    ...assists?
    ...dodging?
    ...passing?
    ...block statistics?
    ...Stunty?
    Last edited by Screwie; 10-09-2012 at 11:53 AM.

  3. #23
    Lesser Hivemind Node sketchseven's Avatar
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    There's always going to be a big jump between playing against the AI and playing against human opponents; so yes, you are giving up too easily. I think taking casualties is one of those really hard to accept things in Blood Bowl because you get so attached to your skilled-up players over the course of a league.

    There are loads of things that I'm still working out about this game and I consider myself to be the quite the noob - and I've played a couple of seasons in DoD now. Still a noob. So just keep going, keep playing, and play matches through to the death.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwie View Post
    That might be a good topic to discuss actually - which is the best team to learn about...
    ...assists?
    ...dodging?
    ...passing?
    ...block statistics?
    ...Stunty?
    The best team to learn about fouling is anything with corpses,
    Necro, Khemri, Undead additionally Nurgle Why because people don't bitch quite so loudly about you profitlessly when its not actually profitless. Thing is, people want non of their players to ever die, and have 5 st and 5 agility each. Yep.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ChainsawHands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Do what I did, while you learn to play foul like a fiend and count all retired/killed players as moral victories.
    It's probably worth pointing out that this is quite poor advice: fouling just isn't an effective tactic.

    I'm not saying never do it - if a MV10 gutter runner falls over trying for a 1 turn touchdown then by all means jump on him with your whole team. But in general it comes with a high risk of getting your own player sent off, and if you commit enough players to get assists on it to move the odds in your favour then you've left yourself out of position, and that just leads to giving away TDs.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainsawHands View Post
    It's probably worth pointing out that this is quite poor advice: fouling just isn't an effective tactic.

    I'm not saying never do it - if a MV10 gutter runner falls over trying for a 1 turn touchdown then by all means jump on him with your whole team. But in general it comes with a high risk of getting your own player sent off, and if you commit enough players to get assists on it to move the odds in your favour then you've left yourself out of position, and that just leads to giving away TDs.
    Its true, efficient play means barely ever fouling, but I wasn't suggesting efficient play, I was suggesting a psycological crutch.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus President Weasel's Avatar
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    That might be a good topic to discuss actually - which is the best team to use in order to learn about...
    ...assists? Orcs. Lots of ST3 and lots of guard access/
    ...dodging? Not orcs. An ag4 team or amazons, amazons might be best, because while Ag4 will teach you about not trying to dodge into a tackle zone, amazons will teach you that plus watching out for opponents with tackle.
    ...passing? Screw it: Orcs. Learn that passing is for rare occasions and that you should mostly cage! Apart from that, Skaven or some kind of elves.
    ...block statistics? You mean the relative chances of success with one dice with block versus 2 dice with no block, that sort of thing? Orcs! They block a lot and some of them start without block. A couple of turnovers from the troll lonering a reroll of both down/skull will teach you about block statistics
    ...Stunty? Lizards will teach you everything you need to know about stunty: that it can be insanely useful as your little men scamper through tackle zones as though they weren't there (because effectively they're not) and that it can be heartbreaking, as your little men mess up a three-square pass, and then someone blitzes your star skink and he snaps in two places.

    Lizards will not teach you about passing.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3dknight View Post
    I'm starting to have second thoughts on this AG3 team though.
    Dark Elf seem to be awesome on paper, minus the high price at the start however.
    Will ponder upon this some more.
    If you've tried human and want to go AG4 then High Elf is the clear choice. Their rosters are right next to each other in the rule book and the High Elf roster makes the human roster look like the piece of shit it is.

  9. #29
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    To learn about the importance of positional play and assists you need to play as Dwarves. Dwarfs (see what I did there?) do not have the crutch of ST4 players that Orcs get to rely on. Nor do they have the raw natural speed of Orcs (See what I did there too?). Playing against Dwarves also works as long as they are competently coached. Every single action and moment that a Dwarf does is crucial to the success of the team but no team benefits so much form the whole side working in concert, no side is more punished by a lack of coherence that evil little Dwarfses.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ChainsawHands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair Hutton View Post
    ...the High Elf roster makes the human roster look like the piece of shit it is.
    It's funny because it's true.

  11. #31
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    We have found by far the best way to teach BB positional play is by teaching Go, especially with younger coaches. Even without a teacher I imagine you would get most of the benefit. Besides Go is a great game anyway so no downside to experimenting :)

  12. #32
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    Can you foul in Go?

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainsawHands View Post
    It's funny because it's true.
    Speed.

    There are only 3 types of MV8 players in the game with ST3, High elf catchers, Pro elf catchers and necromantic werewolves. (is that right?) consider that +MV is trice as common as +ST. But I the ST2 MV8 skins can literally make up the entire team.

    On the flip side consider dwarves, chaos warriors, skeletons and other mv4 players from cheap and pitiful skeletons to menacing.

    Getting your mv 4 players to influence the behaviour of your opponents MV8 and higher players is a constant conflict.
    Do you from a dense field of tackle zones? Play a deep defence or try and tie the fast gits up while your slowbies catch up.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everblue View Post
    Can you foul in Go?
    I like to think when I surround an opponents stone my stones are kicking him to death.

  15. #35
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    There are some useful pointers here

    http://bbtactics.com/forums/blood-bo...y-scrims-t636/

  16. #36
    Nice game tonight against Nords. My god, the amount of blockers on that team...

    He scored first 1-0
    I was unwilling to risk 1 die blocks to stop that one. But was happy when I killed his berserker with a block. The enemy coach do the apoth roll and brought him back to life. But still, nice SPP.

    But that wasn't the end. When my best blitzer stomped the SAME berserker and we KILLED HIM. AGAIN, he doesnt have an apoth to save him. The chat was full of rage and I was laughing hysterically. Moral victory man. SO SWEET. That's when I decided I would bash these guys out of the game. It's the only way to win.

    Angry, he decided to use werewolf to foul my downed thrower. Which got it sent off. Lmao.
    I was playing bashing game up till turn 8 when I did something really stupid.

    I surrounded his lineman with EIGHT players and my catcher was one square away from TD.
    Ogre block the lineman hoping for injury blow - but got bonehead on a 3-die block. I got greedy since I haven't used my roll at that point.. and rerolled anyway. Only to be rewarded by a lousy skull - both downs - and a push.

    No worries. I push the dude...and sent a blitzer on a 2 die blitz block. That'll do a nice injury roll! Ha! Then to score a - except a 2 skull popped out. /facepalm.

    Half ended 1-0 to the Nords and I was like...what the fuck was I thinking. Am I playing to win or to bash? I knuckled down and decide to stick to bashing, and clinch the equalizer. Seize the moral victory. The lesser player he has, the better my chances of scoring. And those wolves will be easier to block since his Ag2 is shit for dodging.

    Second half starts, more hilarity ensues as I injured like 2 more players. And he badly hurt my only thrower and knocked out 2 more. But I was feeling confident, with reserves I have player advantage. I just have to keep grinding him - and... yeah! TD at Turn 12!

    1-1!

    When I saw my knocked down players coming back from the pen, I grinned. This is it. Time to finish this. A little bash here and a little bash there, he can't mount an effective cage on his drive. I grind his players down to 6 on the field. I have 8 when the ball dropped. I think he admitted that he's going to delete his team after this match.

    'But what if you win' I asked in chat.

    No response. I punched another and got him down to 5 men. Moral victory.
    Linesman on the ball. Blitzer pushes an annoying blocker off him. Rush down to the TD line on Turn 16.

    2-1!

    When his turn to drive starts, he just ends it right there straight away.

    :( I hope I don't play against Nords again so soon. Those bastards are nasty.

  17. #37
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    Sounds like it was a cathartic match.

  18. #38
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
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    Assists: Dwarves for the reasons Alistair mentioned. The strength of a dwarf team is linked to how close they are to each other on the field. Spread them out and they're easy to pick apart. Allow them to group up and they'll rollover you

    Dodging: I'd actually say humans would be the best there or any AG3 side that don't have dodge rerolls out of the box. You learn better when to dodge when you dont have a safety net of AG4 or a dodge reroll than if the reverse were true.

    Passing: High Elves. When you play a team that is almost utterly reliant on passing the ball (no easy strength access so will get overpowered easily caging) you learn a lot of the key elements to a passing game - freeing up catchers, relays, screening etc

    Block statistics: Skaven. Nothing helped me understand the vagaries of blocking matchup probabilities better than blitzing ball carriers with gutter runners. Gutter runner squads will almost always have the key ingredients to blocking - block, wrestle, tackle, strip ball, dauntless, horns etc all of which change the probabilities of a successful block/loose ball.

    Stunty: Lizards are the most forgiving of stunty teams due to the protection they are afforded by the saurii and Krox. For an out and out stunty experience try Halflings. Actually a very effective race to play and probably the only out and out stunty team that is capable of being competitive in MM

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20phoenix View Post
    For an out and out stunty experience try Halflings. Actually a very effective race to play and probably the only out and out stunty team that is capable of being competitive in MM
    Not sure about in MM as I like to have a TV difference of -700 to be competitive, but you wait until we meet in the Open...

  20. #40
    Lesser Hivemind Node 20phoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everblue View Post
    Not sure about in MM as I like to have a TV difference of -700 to be competitive, but you wait until we meet in the Open...
    They are viable - essentially you run with a packed bench and foul the bejesus out of anything in sight. A +AG fling helps in this respect as you've got a reasonable shot at a TTM regardless of how the opponents drive goes. This means I tend to ignore stopping him from scoring on his drive and concentrate on removing players.

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