Page 13 of 22 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast
Results 241 to 260 of 438
  1. #241
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,436
    That's kinda my point though. The game might have shit combat, Obsidian's track record isn't great (except for, y'know, TOEE). And it might be buggy. And it might look kinda naff. Pretty much the only think it's bound to do well is an intricate, smart, adaptive story with strong writing. So suggesting doing stuff that's actually at odds with that seems pointless.

    I get that you're not interested in that but surely it's better that they focus on what they're good at and leave the other stuff to people best placed to do a good job of it? Were this a discussion about potentially having a stronghold in Wasteland 2, I'd be entirely agreeing with you.

  2. #242
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NY f'n C
    Posts
    9,917
    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    That's kinda my point though. The game might have shit combat, Obsidian's track record isn't great (except for, y'know, TOEE). And it might be buggy. And it might look kinda naff. Pretty much the only think it's bound to do well is an intricate, smart, adaptive story with strong writing. So suggesting doing stuff that's actually at odds with that seems pointless.

    I get that you're not interested in that but surely it's better that they focus on what they're good at and leave the other stuff to people best placed to do a good job of it? Were this a discussion about potentially having a stronghold in Wasteland 2, I'd be entirely agreeing with you.
    This. It's going to end in a circular argument anyway, but this.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  3. #243
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,994
    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    That's kinda my point though. The game might have shit combat, Obsidian's track record isn't great (except for, y'know, TOEE).
    Obsidian didn't make ToEE. And even then that game had D&D's combat system, which is guaranteed to be better than anything they come up with themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    I get that you're not interested in that but surely it's better that they focus on what they're good at and leave the other stuff to people best placed to do a good job of it? Were this a discussion about potentially having a stronghold in Wasteland 2, I'd be entirely agreeing with you.
    But that's it. A lot of these developers talk to talk. They like old CRPGs a lot, and you kind of start thinking that the reason they've been making shitty games is because of the publishers. I remember reading Josh Sawyer's Darklands retrospective, claiming it to be one of his favourite games. That's one of the most sandbox RPGs out there, not to mention one where you create a party of four. Tim Cain designed ToEE, which is a hardcore turn-based tactical D&D game. Even Chris Avellone says the right things from time to time. Yes, they did promise good writing and interesting characters and other stuff, but perhaps that was a way to appeal to the fans of their previous games, the ones with tight publisher control. You start to think that they may go on and do things with this game that they couldn't have attempted with previous efforts, but it doesn't look like this will be the case sadly. Single player-created character, like their previous games, real-time with pause, like some of their previous games, dialogue and story focused, like their previous games. In fact, the only thing that stands out is "isometric 2D graphics", but that has nothing to do with the gameplay.

  4. #244
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    4,153
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    Obsidian didn't make ToEE. And even then that game had D&D's combat system, which is guaranteed to be better than anything they come up with themselves.


    But that's it. A lot of these developers talk to talk. They like old CRPGs a lot, and you kind of start thinking that the reason they've been making shitty games is because of the publishers. I remember reading Josh Sawyer's Darklands retrospective, claiming it to be one of his favourite games. That's one of the most sandbox RPGs out there, not to mention one where you create a party of four. Tim Cain designed ToEE, which is a hardcore turn-based tactical D&D game. Even Chris Avellone says the right things from time to time. Yes, they did promise good writing and interesting characters and other stuff, but perhaps that was a way to appeal to the fans of their previous games, the ones with tight publisher control. You start to think that they may go on and do things with this game that they couldn't have attempted with previous efforts, but it doesn't look like this will be the case sadly. Single player-created character, like their previous games, real-time with pause, like some of their previous games, dialogue and story focused, like their previous games. In fact, the only thing that stands out is "isometric 2D graphics", but that has nothing to do with the gameplay.
    So in other words, they're sticking to what they're good at and what the people who have given them 2 million are looking for from them. If you don't like it, don't back it, don't buy it, simples.

    There's a reason when I go to Subway I order a meatball on hearty italian. Because subway make a very good meatball with hearty italian and it's probably been a long time since I got one from them since I rarely go in.

  5. #245
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Argentina
    Posts
    2,930
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    This. It's going to end in a circular argument anyway, but this.
    As I've been watching Battlestar Galactica lately the phrase "all of this has happened before and it will happen again" comes to mind.

  6. #246
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,994
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    So in other words, they're sticking to what they're good at and what the people who have given them 2 million are looking for from them. If you don't like it, don't back it, don't buy it, simples.

    There's a reason when I go to Subway I order a meatball on hearty italian. Because subway make a very good meatball with hearty italian and it's probably been a long time since I got one from them since I rarely go in.
    So what's so special about doing a Kickstarter when they are making exactly the same kind of game they did before? You haven't answered this. Just look what inXile are doing with Wasteland 2. That company has been churning out the shittest games imaginable for years now, and all of a sudden they are liberated and can produce a game in a radically different style. Even Double Fine's Kickstarter game is in a completely different style to their other games, being a traditional point and click adventure (last time I checked). Hoping for a company with many games under their belt to do something different with a Kickstarter project seems pretty reasonable from where I'm standing.

  7. #247
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    4,153
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    So what's so special about doing a Kickstarter when they are making exactly the same kind of game they did before? You haven't answered this. Just look what inXile are doing with Wasteland 2. That company has been churning out the shittest games imaginable for years now, and all of a sudden they are liberated and can produce a game in a radically different style. Even Double Fine's Kickstarter game is in a completely different style to their other games, being a traditional point and click adventure (last time I checked). Hoping for a company with many games under their belt to do something different with a Kickstarter project seems pretty reasonable from where I'm standing.
    Because

    "We have wanted to go back to our roots and create an epic PC role-playing game adventure for years. But, it's been almost impossible to get funding through traditional methods for a game like this. The great thing about Kickstarter is that we can go directly to the people who love to play RPGs as much as we love to make them."

    Taken from their kickstarter page. Is that clear enough for you? inExile and Double Fine bought said the very same thing, publishers aren't interested in backing such projects.

    And I'm sorry, but do you know who works at Double Fine? The guys there practically invented Point and Click.

  8. #248
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,436
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    So what's so special about doing a Kickstarter when they are making exactly the same kind of game they did before? You haven't answered this.
    Like I said, it's the difference between making the kind of game you want to make, and making the game you want to make.

  9. #249
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,994
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    Because

    "We have wanted to go back to our roots and create an epic PC role-playing game adventure for years. But, it's been almost impossible to get funding through traditional methods for a game like this. The great thing about Kickstarter is that we can go directly to the people who love to play RPGs as much as we love to make them."

    Taken from their kickstarter page. Is that clear enough for you? inExile and Double Fine bought said the very same thing, publishers aren't interested in backing such projects.
    How is that clear enough? Dragon Age: Origins is in exactly the same style and that sold millions of copies and turned a tidy profit. Both Knights of the Old Republic 2 and Neverwinter Nights 2 were in the same style too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    And I'm sorry, but do you know who works at Double Fine? The guys there practically invented Point and Click.
    Yes, of course I do, but that didn't stop Double Fine from making actiony adventury puzzly things for years, just as it didn't stop inXile from producing turd after turd for years. Do you know who works for inXile?

    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Like I said, it's the difference between making the kind of game you want to make, and making the game you want to make.
    What does this even mean?

  10. #250
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,308
    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    But that's not the game Obsidian is selling.
    Since when is this thread about the Obsidian's game ?! It's about off-topic for as long as I can remember.
    pass

  11. #251
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,493
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    How is that clear enough? Dragon Age: Origins is in exactly the same style and that sold millions of copies and turned a tidy profit. Both Knights of the Old Republic 2 and Neverwinter Nights 2 were in the same style too.

    What does this even mean?
    And yet they saw fit to turn Dragon Age 2 into a beat-em-up, and Neverwinter is now an MMO.

    It means that they type of game you want is far different than the game they're actually making, the game they said they were going to make.

    Your posts offer the following opinions. Narrative should be a distant concern if one at all. Mechanics should reign supreme. All of Obsidian's past games have sucked because they haven't followed these codas, but they're the only company right now that could possibly make a game that could be the game they want. Their games aren't really RPGs. It doesn't matter what they promised in their kickstarter because it didn't match these ideas about RPGs. It doesn't matter that 47k people funded them and are probably going to get the game they want, they're wrong.

    Did you even back it? Do you even hold the smallest shred of excitement for it? Did you just come here to start an argument with people who like well written worlds or to tell them their opinions' are wrong?

  12. #252
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NY f'n C
    Posts
    9,917
    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    Your posts offer the following opinions. Narrative should be a distant concern if one at all. Mechanics should reign supreme. All of Obsidian's past games have sucked because they haven't followed these codas, but they're the only company right now that could possibly make a game that could be the game they want. Their games aren't really RPGs. It doesn't matter what they promised in their kickstarter because it didn't match these ideas about RPGs. It doesn't matter that 47k people funded them and are probably going to get the game they want, they're wrong.
    I see you've been introduced to Wizardry.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  13. #253
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    Did you even back it? Do you even hold the smallest shred of excitement for it? Did you just come here to start an argument with people who like well written worlds or to tell them their opinions' are wrong?
    Do you even lift?
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

  14. #254
    Network Hub Revisor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    459
    Wonderful update. Expert mode, ironman mode, brutal combat mode as stretch goals.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...y/posts/316398

  15. #255
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,994
    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    And yet they saw fit to turn Dragon Age 2 into a beat-em-up
    What's the difference between the combat in these two games? Both are actually quite similar, but with the second game being faster. Both have shit combat, but that's not my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    and Neverwinter is now an MMO.
    Neverwinter Nights was originally an MMO, so if anything it's going back to its roots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    Your posts offer the following opinions. Narrative should be a distant concern if one at all. Mechanics should reign supreme. All of Obsidian's past games have sucked because they haven't followed these codas, but they're the only company right now that could possibly make a game that could be the game they want. Their games aren't really RPGs. It doesn't matter what they promised in their kickstarter because it didn't match these ideas about RPGs. It doesn't matter that 47k people funded them and are probably going to get the game they want, they're wrong.
    Are you avoiding my question on purpose? You haven't explained to me why this Kickstarter is even exciting when they are proposing a game in the style that's popular right now in the mainstream and that they've done a few times before. Surely they can find a publisher for a Dragon Age type game, considering that series has sold millions of copies.

  16. #256
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,436
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    What does this even mean?
    You're a classically trained pianist. You love piano music in the classical style. You love playing the wonderful historical compositions of Bach or Mozart. But performing your own stuff is even better than that.

    It's why bands write new songs and don't just perform songs other people have written in a style that suits them.

  17. #257
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,994
    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    You're a classically trained pianist. You love piano music in the classical style. You love playing the wonderful historical compositions of Bach or Mozart. But performing your own stuff is even better than that.

    It's why bands write new songs and don't just perform songs other people have written in a style that suits them.
    But Obsidian created their previous games, not their publishers, so that analogy doesn't quite work.

  18. #258
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,493
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    Are you avoiding my question on purpose? You haven't explained to me why this Kickstarter is even exciting when they are proposing a game in the style that's popular right now in the mainstream and that they've done a few times before. Surely they can find a publisher for a Dragon Age type game, considering that series has sold millions of copies.
    Considering that a publisher wanted them to do their own kickstarter, it's probably a bit harder than that.

    Because Obsidian is pretty good at making this type of game and it's been 4 years since Storm of Zehir. So if the Kickstarter isn't exciting, why are you posting in a thread about it?

  19. #259
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,994
    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    Considering that a publisher wanted them to do their own kickstarter, it's probably a bit harder than that.

    Because Obsidian is pretty good at making this type of game and it's been 4 years since Storm of Zehir. So if the Kickstarter isn't exciting, why are you posting in a thread about it?
    So you're telling me that after those 4 years, during which Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 sold millions of copies, the only way they can get funding for that kind of game again is to use crowd funding? Because if that were true I'd fully understand. However, I have my doubts, therefore I expected something "daring" from their Kickstarter. And yes, I was looking forward to it, albeit in a perverse way.

  20. #260
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,436
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    But Obsidian created their previous games, not their publishers, so that analogy doesn't quite work.
    No it doesn't. But you start to see the difference. They were working to someone else's spec before. In most cases they were sequels so a lot was already set for them. It's not like they could go make whatever they wanted. Because you're right, if it was, they wouldn't need Kickstarter. But I somehow doubt SEGA just told them to make something and they did Alpha Protocol. "A first-person, action combat spy RPG" was likely the brief there. And so on.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •