Gamepads, KB/M, joysticks, all that stuff

[postinternetsyndrome]

I use an MX518, that replaced my old 510 (last year! those things last forever!). The main thing I want is a comfortable grip and extra buttons. I usually bind melee and throw grenade type actions to the thumb buttons, which frees up some space around wasd for misc stuff. The small scroll buttons by the scroll wheel are also useful for binding utility stuff that doesn't need to be accessed super fast but you still don't want to reach across the keyboard for. (Like switching to certain weapons, turning laser sights on and off etc.) The mouse wheel I rarely use, since switching weapons with number keys is always faster and more reliable. I experimented a bit with the sensivity switch functionality but it mostly got confusing, and used up buttons that I'd rather use for other stuff.

In conclusion, I don't feel I have much use for all the fancy features of "gaming" mice, I just want me a handful of extra buttons and general high quality. I could probably find a use for even more buttons than the 518 has, but at that point the prices quickly escalate and in the end it's not that important to me. If I find myself with an excess of monetary funds in the future though, I will probably get something fancy anyway.

[Gorzan]

Well, I've just bought a mouse and am going to change it back. I'm I the only one who finds thumb buttons uncomfortable and easy to press without intention of doing so?

[mashakos]

Well, I've just bought a mouse and am going to change it back. I'm I the only one who finds thumb buttons uncomfortable and easy to press without intention of doing so?

no but I am a "fingertip grip" person according to this guide:
http://www.razerzone.com/mouseguide/ergonomic/clawgrip
Generally I have finer control through my fingers and less control through my wrist. So buttons don't get accidentally pressed but the down side is that I can't do super fast swipes with great accuracy. A swipe using your fingers is almost like a shove.

I usually don't take "guides" from hardware companies seriously, but I was surprised to find out how differently people held their mouse.

EDIT: I'm a fingertip grip dude actually, not claw grip.

[b0rsuk]

I can't wait for a game that uses two mice as its input method. Mice are ubiquitous PC controllers and it's not an outlandish idea to expect players to own two. Only... what kind of game would have an use for two mice or even two mouse pointers ? A flight simulator ?

[victory]

I can't wait for a game that uses two mice as its input method. Mice are ubiquitous PC controllers and it's not an outlandish idea to expect players to own two. Only... what kind of game would have an use for two mice or even two mouse pointers ? A flight simulator ?

Definitely not a flight simulator, and I'm hard pressed to think of any suitable game design.

Even before considering an input-to-game mapping, we hit the problem that the majority of people aren't ambidextrous enough to use a mouse in their non-dominant hand.

Then the mapping. A two mouse combination is an analog 4-axis (plus digital button) input system where every axis is relative. Relative analog axis states are really hard to keep track of. We seem to manage two relative analog axis because the left-right, up-down mapping is pretty intuitive to visually represent to us (whether it's used for mouselook or to control a mouse cursor). More would probably be a failure.

Two simple analog joysticks supply an equal analog axis count but since they have an absolute mapping instead of relative, we can make sense of them much easier; that setup can actually be useful for something like a mech sim.

[gundato]

Yeah, the only thing I could see two mice working for would be to simulate hands. And the Razer Hydra does that better.

Speaking of, anyone have an experience with the Hydra?

[Sparkasaurusmex]

Two mice would be great for some kind of coop or head to head game on the same machine

[Faldrath]

no but I am a "fingertip grip" person according to this guide:
http://www.razerzone.com/mouseguide/ergonomic/clawgrip

Interesting link, thanks. Turns out I'm also "fingertip". And to make matters worse, I need to use mousepads with wrist support, so I find that I simply cannot use side buttons comfortably. I use my thumb, ring and pinky fingers to move the mouse, and if I apply extra pressure to press a side button, everything gets out of whack.

[bad guy]

Two mice in a boxing game could be cool, with analog control of both hands.
Move mice close together for defence/block.
With a similar punching mechanism as in EA Fight Night for the consoles.

[fuzzy logic]

Using two mice would be bad for me; my left arm is super retarded compared to my right. Unless the controls on the left mouse were really simple (like the boxing idea mentioned by bad guy), I'd have to practice for years to bring my left up to half the standard of my right.

Let's see, I have:
-A cheap Logitech keyboard. Can you bring up your calculator with the push of a button?
-A G500 Logitech mouse. I like it a lot. I actually do use the DPI switch, even if I didn't expect to. Mainly just because it's faster than changing the mouse sensitivity in the options menu. I use the other non-standard buttons for my push-to-talk key, and to control iTunes from any application (I know, iTunes is bad, I'm sorry).
-2 F310 Logitech gamepads. They can emulate Xinput to trick games into treating them as 360 pads. Bought a new one and a refurbished one. The latter's D-pad is mushy but still works properly. They're not my favorite controllers ever, but they serve their purpose. Plus, they work on my PS3 in direct input mode. So, that's nice when I need some extra controllers--as I only have one PS3 controller. 3-player co-op Awesomenauts!
-An old Logitech Wingman wireless controller. This thing makes the original Xbox pad look dinky. It's just kind of bad all around. The D-pad is incredibly inaccurate--it's just a rubber concave dish. The joysticks are too loose for me and they're made of slippery plastic, which is annoying. The buttons are far apart. The shoulder buttons are far apart. You need giant hands to utilize this behemoth. The only game I've thought it handled well was Super Meat Boy. It feels sub par for everything else I've tried. The only good points are its wireless-ness and really good rumble.
-Two fight sticks, a Tatsunoku Vs Capcom Wii one (used with Wii to USB adapter) and a cheap black generic one by Mayflash. They both work well enough for a Street Fighter noob. I'll probably use it/them for Mortal Kombat, if I decide to grab it on PS3.

Dream controller: maybe a joystick-like stub nested in a dome of polyester and padding that sat below your keyboard. So, you could get analog movement by massaging against the padded stub thing (this is starting to get weird) while still being able to reach your keyboard keys with your finger tips. Hmm, I'm trying it with my wrist pad now... don't think that's gonna work. Something that allowed KB&M controls but added in easy-to-use-simultaneously analogue movement. That sounds good.

As for general preferences: I prefer mouse and keyboard for almost everything. Even some platformers and third person action titles. For example, I hate playing Super Meat Boy on keyboard, but I prefer it in Trine and Hell Yeah! (because I hate aiming with the right joystick). I like using a gamepad in Batman: Arkham Asylum, but I prefer mouse and keyboard on Assassin's Creed and Sleeping Dogs. The precise and swift camera control a mouse allows makes up for and can even act as a substitute for analogue movement on a joystick. AC is so much better on KB&M, I can't stand the slow camera movement in that game on a joystick.

[Mindwedge]

Only crazy people use gamepads on a PC.

Unfotunate that too many racing games don't support the mouse for steering. People are being trained to drop the mouse and grab the joypad. It's not a big deal to support the mouse. I recall the greatness that Midtwon Madness was just because it supported the mouse. Finally I didn't Have to steer with the KB. We didn't have 360 for Win joypads back then. In truth, the mouse is a superior input device for analogous tasks like steering (or aiming a gun for that matter). A 3/4 inch stick just doesn't cut it for high-speed thrills.

[soldant]

I run a Steelseries 7G and Sensei mouse. I find the mouse to be wonderfully responsive and incredibly smooth, but my god I hate the finish on it. A day of using it and it looks like it's a year old already, the slightest bit of dirt just shows up instantly and it seems to attract it from across the room.

The 7G is nice to play on, but I find it's not so nice to type on. I love mechanical keyboards and before this I had a Razar Blackwidow which used the Cherry Blue switches, which wasn't so fantastic for games but was great to type on. The 7G uses Cherry MX Black switches, which loses some of that tactile feedback, and isn't so nice to type on IMO. But it doesn't look halfway as ridiculous as the Blackwidow.

I also use a 360 gamepad occasionally, because despite what some people say, analogue controls via thumbsticks aren't absolutely useless for all games. I'd never play a flight sim with a mouse for example.

[Mohorovicic]

Yeah, the only thing I could see two mice working for would be to simulate hands.

Boob touching simulator 2014

[Metalfish]

The 360 pad is a great bit of kit. You'd have to pay twice as much for something half as good back in the day. For all the bashing consoles get here (usually with a tongue in a cheek somewhere mind), it's almost a mandatory element of the PC gaming armoury these days. Often a better option for platformers and all sorts action games.

[Hypernetic]

The 360 pad is a great bit of kit. You'd have to pay twice as much for something half as good back in the day. For all the bashing consoles get here (usually with a tongue in a cheek somewhere mind), it's almost a mandatory element of the PC gaming armoury these days. Often a better option for platformers and all sorts action games.

I don't know about all this twice as much for half as good business, but they've had gamepads for PC since at least 20 or so years ago. I remember buying a gamepad in the mid 90s to play the Primal Rage arcade port on PC.

[trjp]

I don't know about all this twice as much for half as good business, but they've had gamepads for PC since at least 20 or so years ago. I remember buying a gamepad in the mid 90s to play the Primal Rage arcade port on PC.

My first joystick was for a Dragon 32 and it cost more than my 360 pad did - quite a bit more.

I've owned a few along the way and they've all been relatively expensive - the 360 pad isn't perfect (the D Pad feels shit and is in an unusable position for starters) but it's core purpose, the '2 sticks, 4 triggers and 4 face buttons' bit of it works a treat IMO

They're also pretty well made - my PC and 360 pads have taken quite a bit of abuse (the 360 one has been thrown more than twice) and they're still working AOK

[Hypernetic]

My first joystick was for a Dragon 32 and it cost more than my 360 pad did - quite a bit more.

I've owned a few along the way and they've all been relatively expensive - the 360 pad isn't perfect (the D Pad feels shit and is in an unusable position for starters) but it's core purpose, the '2 sticks, 4 triggers and 4 face buttons' bit of it works a treat IMO

They're also pretty well made - my PC and 360 pads have taken quite a bit of abuse (the 360 one has been thrown more than twice) and they're still working AOK

I have no problem with the 360 pad, I use one myself for some games. I was just pointing out that it's not some revolutionary thing and it's also not really that cheap relatively speaking. Comparing to an actual joystick is not appropriate as that is an entirely different device. Back in the day they had actual gamepads that were pretty similar to SNES and Genesis pads for a bit cheaper than the actual console pads cost. They were made by companies like logitech and such. One of the pads I had, had a little tiny stick you could screw into the dpad to make it like a joystick =P

[Makariel]

Currently I have a Steelseries Ikari Mouse, M$ natural keyboard (normal keyboard causes RSI to act up after too much typing), Xbox wireless controller and a rather crappy Thrustmaster Wheel & Pedals. Any recommendations for a decent wheel for racing that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? Somewhere I still have an old Flightstick Pro, but no joyport to connect it.

[Hypernetic]

Oh yeah. I'm currently using a blackwidow keyboard and a death adder mouse. The death adder isn't the best mouse in the world, it could especially use some extra buttons and a DPI switch that isn't UNDER the mouse, but I just LOVe the feel of it in my hand. I have a 360 pad and some kind of joystick (I forget what it is, I haven't used it in years).

I got a 60% off coupon for the logitech store from a logitech rep I met at PAX and purchased one of those new MMO mice (naga clone basically) and while it is really cool feature wise, I really didn't like how it felt in my hand, so I went back to my death adder.

[BillButNotBen]

I find it interesting the "360 pad" has totally superceded "gamepad". There are hundreds of different gamepads available for pc, and there always have been. Why has it become accepted that we only use the MS gamepad from their console? Is there anyone, like me, who uses a non-360 gamepad? Anyone at all? How did MS pull that one off?

I have a cheap generic USB gamepad that i picked up a few years ago for about 4 quid, and I've not really found anything it doesn't work on. though i don't often play games that prefer a gamepad.... I picked it up when i wanted to play Psychonauts and BG&E on pc.