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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious View Post
    Critics and fans also seemed to much prefer ME2 to ME1.
    This.

    Garrus and Liara came into their own and Mordin stole the show. The gameplay was smoother to the point where ME1 looked clunky in comparison.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    This.

    Garrus and Liara came into their own and Mordin stole the show. The gameplay was smoother to the point where ME1 looked clunky in comparison.
    I agree from this but prefer the tone and fiction in the first even if the characters are less compelling. I wish the whole series had kept the 60s/70s sci-fi homage thing rather than the generic space action man it became in 2 and 3.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    These guys didn't just quit yesterday. They each gave 6 months notice (SOP when you're a company director..hell some places make you give a year). Not sure what the timeline is on when events occur exactly in relation to ME3 debacle (in a dash atm) but it's worth bearing in mind.
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  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Honestly I'm not really sure why everyone has/had such a massive hard-on for Bioware in the first place. How many games did they make that were actually great games?

    I never played Baldur's gate, but I feel like the majority of people on message boards who jizz in their pants about that game haven't played it before either (see Kid Icarus, Psychonauts, and Beyond Good and Evil as other examples of games that people pretend they have played to sound cool).

    So what else was there? DA:O and ME? Bioware already had this apparently great reputation before those games, so where did it come from? KOTOR? KOTOR, like most of Bioware's game was clunky and buggy as hell.

    All of the Bioware games I've ever played have seemed very unpolished compared to other games with similar budgets.

    I'm not being hateful or spiteful, I just really don't understand where their reputation as a premier game/RPG developer came from in the first place.

  5. #25
    Lesser Hivemind Node Oshada's Avatar
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    6 months would pretty much put the notices smack bang in the middle of the ending fiasco.... just saying.

    The Eurogamer story's top comment is absolutely brilliant.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oshada View Post
    6 months would pretty much put the notices smack bang in the middle of the ending fiasco.... just saying.

    The Eurogamer story's top comment is absolutely brilliant.
    It also puts it right after the launch of their biggest/most anticipated game to date. It's much more likely that they saw the conclusion of their biggest franchise as a good time for themselves to step down and allow a new person(s) to take the helm.

    I highly doubt some people being upset about the ending would be why they would resign from Bioware.

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    but I feel like the majority of people on message boards who jizz in their pants about that game haven't played it before either.
    I'd say with this board guess again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Honestly I'm not really sure why everyone has/had such a massive hard-on for Bioware in the first place. How many games did they make that were actually great games?
    Personally, it mostly comes from Baldur's Gate. They had other good stuff before Dragon Age or Mass Effect but Baldur's Gate was a big deal at the time. Yes, their games were broken at times and the D&D system wasn't particularly good for the style of games created but it was computer D&D (yes, I know it's not like pen & paper) with a huge world to explore.

    I suspect they also gain goodwill from the whole series of Infinity Engine games, even the ones they had nothing to do with.

    I'm not sure I can think of many similar games that were actually polished and worked all the way through at the time. They all gained significant fan patches that fixed numerous bugs, they all had pretty unusable UIs by today's standards and they all made combat far more fiddly than it should be.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Honestly I'm not really sure why everyone has/had such a massive hard-on for Bioware in the first place. How many games did they make that were actually great games?

    I never played Baldur's gate, but I feel like the majority of people on message boards who jizz in their pants about that game haven't played it before either (see Kid Icarus, Psychonauts, and Beyond Good and Evil as other examples of games that people pretend they have played to sound cool).

    So what else was there? DA:O and ME? Bioware already had this apparently great reputation before those games, so where did it come from? KOTOR? KOTOR, like most of Bioware's game was clunky and buggy as hell.

    All of the Bioware games I've ever played have seemed very unpolished compared to other games with similar budgets.

    I'm not being hateful or spiteful, I just really don't understand where their reputation as a premier game/RPG developer came from in the first place.
    Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 really were very influential games and on top of that are also really good.

    Edit: Was there even any RTwP cRPG of note before Baldur's Gate?
    Last edited by NathanH; 19-09-2012 at 10:32 AM.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I like Bioware because I played their games when I was young, so their name has a special meaning and memories of fondness. I'm smart enough to know that the games were buggy and unpolished but I loved them warts and all (the same goes for Obsidians games). I do know that the Bioware then and now are like most things very different and while I've enjoyed most of DA:O, choice elements of DA2 (though I had to force myself to finish it) and almost all of the ME series I still think I prefer old Bioware. TOR was of no interest to me and this action of slapping Biowares name on everything (see the new C&C coming out) won't make me rush out and by it.

    I'd love for them to get back to their roots but I think that time is long passed.

  11. #31
    Lesser Hivemind Node eRa's Avatar
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    Beer may be one of the few pursuits more worthy than videogames, I salute you Dr. Zeschuk.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I never played Baldur's gate, but I feel like the majority of people on message boards who jizz in their pants about that game haven't played it before either (see Kid Icarus, Psychonauts, and Beyond Good and Evil as other examples of games that people pretend they have played to sound cool).
    Nah, Baldur's Gate sold like hotcakes at the time, relative to the market. If you were into PC games back then, you likely played it. Psychonauts and BGE are different in that they were critical darlings that really didn't sell.

    KOTOR and Jade Empire also did well at the time; they're clunky in retrospect, but they were early real-time 3D RPGs. NWN was the only real clunker, and even that was redeemed somewhat by the expansions.

    I think it comes down to BG 1 and 2 being excellent, and every other Bioware game facing the expectations of living up to it. And every time, they don't quite get there but the game is good enough that people hope that the next one will be 'the one'.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    NWN was the only real clunker, and even that was redeemed somewhat by the expansions.
    NWN's selling point was the modability. There are still persistent worlds being run.
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  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Nah, Baldur's Gate sold like hotcakes at the time, relative to the market. If you were into PC games back then, you likely played it. Psychonauts and BGE are different in that they were critical darlings that really didn't sell.
    I think both Psychonauts & BGE have shipped a lot of units over time (same with mirrors edge) to the extent that sequels/spiritual successors are mooted. Blade runner was a commercial failure at cinemas, but it cleaned up in terms of video & DVD sales as well as directors cut versions later on. Initial sales aren't everything.
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  15. #35
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    This is the how manieth studio that EA has managed to turn into a shell of its former self? I lost count years ago.
    Anyhow I'm glad, now if bioware games would stop selling in the next few years then they can finally put it down.

    @ hypernetic, I think it's mostly because of KOTOR (BG is just too long ago the majority of the target audience of ME etc probably wasn't born then or still being bottle fed)
    Which makes it pretty weird since bioware have been making the exact same game in a different skin with a worse and worse story since KOTOR... (kotor 2 , ME, dragon age are all the exact same formula as the original).
    I had my fill after Kotor, not sure why people were willing to put up with reskinned more of the same.

    I get why people may have thought DA was great (first time playing a kotor game) , or why they liked bioware (thought BG or kotor were good) but the two combined makes no sense.

    offtopic: I got beyond good and evil at its original release on pc and while fairly charming it was pretty rubbish as a game. I got bored a few hours in and stopped playing in the factory where I was photographing rats as if it's some pokemon game.
    Just hipster mentality and peer pressure on the interwebs that make the majority of 'fans' pretend it was good or that they even played the game.
    Last edited by Finicky; 19-09-2012 at 02:40 PM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Edit: Was there even any RTwP cRPG of note before Baldur's Gate?
    Darklands.
    Last edited by Wizardry; 19-09-2012 at 02:54 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    Darklands.
    Oh yeah. Shouldn't have forgotten that one.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Honestly I'm not really sure why everyone has/had such a massive hard-on for Bioware in the first place. How many games did they make that were actually great games? (see Kid Icarus, Psychonauts, and Beyond Good and Evil as other examples of games that people pretend they have played to sound cool).
    Other than the BG games, I have yet to play a Bioware game that I would call great. I have found both the Mass Effect and Dragon Age series to be unexceptional (ME3 and DA2 were simply dreadful). They do have a lot of polish, they do have characters spewing snarky one liners that neckbeards like to salivate over so much but that is all there is to them. Their games feel like the CoDs of rpgs, all style no substance. The gameplay is repetitive and is dumbed down to the point that it feels like a chore to get to the decent bits, the storylines are amateurish and uninspired and the dialogue tends to be cringeworthy.

    Psychonauts is awesome.

    So what else was there? DA:O and ME? Bioware already had this apparently great reputation before those games, so where did it come from? KOTOR? KOTOR, like most of Bioware's game was clunky and buggy as hell.
    KOTOR doesn't hold a candle to KOTOR 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goateh View Post
    Personally, it mostly comes from Baldur's Gate. They had other good stuff before Dragon Age or Mass Effect but Baldur's Gate was a big deal at the time.
    And Black Isle Studios had a role in making Baldur's Gate what it is.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: I haven't gotten around to reading their actual blog posts yet, just the RPS summary

    From what it sounds like though, I don't think this is a "rage quit" as it were, and it isn't them spiting EA. It sounds like they both just want to try other things in life.

    If there IS any disgruntlement, I think it would be a mixture of the ME3 fiasco ("Everything is horrible because I didn't realize the entire third game was the ending, not the last five minutes!") plus the general tone. In the era of BG and even NWN, people LIKED video games. They would say "Wow, this campaign is a piece of crap. But imagine all the fun stuff we can do with the toolset!". These days, you get "Oh my god, I hated the last minute or two, I am going to try and sue and scream how much I hate it!" or "Worst X ever"

    But even that doesn't really seem to be there. I think it is just that both of them have decided to move on. If they hadn't both basically said "Yeah, no video games planned in our future" I could see it as them splintering away. But there isn't.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    This is the how manieth studio that EA has managed to turn into a shell of its former self? I lost count years ago.
    Origin
    Bullfrog
    Westwood
    Maxis
    BioWare

    What's missing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    @ hypernetic, I think it's mostly because of KOTOR (BG is just too long ago the majority of the target audience of ME etc probably wasn't born then or still being bottle fed)
    I think that's because Knights of the Old Republic came out for consoles, where as their previous games didn't. This is why Knights of the Old Republic is so well regarded by console gamers, because it's usually the first ever western RPG they've ever played.
    Last edited by Wizardry; 19-09-2012 at 02:56 PM.

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