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02-10-2012, 10:39 AM #1
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- The land of slain white knights
Tired of multi player gaming. Sort of.
Is anyone else tired of the constant meta game of levelling up that Call Of Duty seems to have inspired in nearly every first person shooter going?
Don't get me wrong I like being ranked in a game (See: Halo 2's ranking system, there's been nothing as good) but I'm tired of it been about how long I've played rather than how successful I've been.
It's really annoying how weapons to fit my play style are squirrelled away under some distant rank or how accessories are locked away by the need to attain so many kills and what not.
Are games too scared to give us everything up front? Is just blatant copy-catting or are they afraid the game won't stand up to scrutiny if you're given everything at once?
My recent time with a certain robot themed FPS has recently reminded me of just how fun multiplayer gaming can be without the need to constantly level up, at how good the joy of combat and competition can be.
I wish we could get back to the quake/unreal days of just lots of maps and a hefty dose of skill
02-10-2012, 10:47 AM #2
I agree with your statements, but I understand why the companies are doing it.
It's the thing to do. CoD is the best selling FPS series out there at the minute and you have to copy the big name. There's also so many releases in that genre now that you have to find a way to keep people playing, so that when you release your map pack, they'll pick it up. So many people who play CoD (and other games with unlock systems that are copies of it) are actually playing for the leveling up, to prestige and then to start over to get a new badge. They're playing more for a habit/slight addiction/sense of enjoyment they get from "progression" rather than the fun of killing a bunch of dudes online.
It's why we don't get Unreal/Doom/Quake arena shooters much anymore, where all the guns are laid out on the map and the best guns are often tucked away in tricky locations.
I wish there was no leveling system, FPS games don't need them for anything other than as a mechanism to keep people playing their games, so they can sell them DLC.
For me I find it harder to play multiplayer games without a community. Ever since playing WoW and going to LANs with my friends, I don't like pug multiplayer anymore where I don't feel like I know anyone. That was the main reason for my joining the RPS forums in fact.
02-10-2012, 10:48 AM #3
I feel similarly.
I haven't got the time or desire to invest in unlocking every unlock in games like Battlefield 3, and it annoys me that its the only way I'm able play with all of the weapons, even though sometimes I'd like to just dick around with certain toys (EoD for example). Worst experience I've had with unlocks would have to go to the recent War of The Roses beta, Where everything is locked away, meaning you can't jump straight into mounted combat or archery, you have to level up first.
I believe its because developers think its the only way to keep people playing there games, which in my opinion speaks volumes about their own thoughts on the quality of there game.
But yeah, I'd like to see some games just offer everything up front, and let the player enjoy playing the game, rather than be forced into a tedious grind.
02-10-2012, 11:46 PM #4
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
02-10-2012, 11:11 AM #5
Looking at GameRankings timeline of FPS games it all went to pot in 2007.
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars kept the levelling in the match, much like Alien swarm(not an fps), Killing Floor and Crysis, whereas Team Fortress 2 had no unlocks(see also Unreal Tournament III), it was perfect in its arrangement. Everyone had access to everything and it was good.*sighs*
Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway, Far Cry 2, Fear 2 and Wolfenstein had more of a "quake style" pick guns up off the floor mentality.
But then the XP train was rolling, Call of Duty 4(etc), Section 8,BioShock 2, Medal of Honor, Crysis 2, Brink, Homefront and the cherry on the Pie the disgusting explosion in an unlock factory that is Batlefield 3, and Somewhere along the way Team fortress 2 lost its way and turned into a grind/pay to win. Getting killed by equipment you cant even try out is extremely annoying.
By my understanding Red Orchestra 2 is one of the few recent FPS without a levelling up system which withholds equipment,
Really, I'd just suggest not playing these unlock games with the consideration that if you genuinely want to play them you remember that you are promoting this behaviour in further development.
02-10-2012, 11:19 AM #6
I'm not tired of multiplayer, but I am annoyed whenever I come across that kind of system in a game.
One of the best multiplayer experiences I've had recently was with Assassin's Creed Brotherhood/Revelations; . The basic gameplay involves you stalking your given target and assassinating them, whilst avoiding the person who is out to kill you. It's very tense, but new players are at an immediate disadvantage due to the leveling system which gives you upgrades and better gear.
I'm pretty sure AC3 will use a similar system in its multiplayer, and that's a shame.
It's not all doom and gloom though, not everybody is using it. I'll be playing Natural Selection 2 in a few weeks which has no leveling system in sight, just pure gameplay from day one.
02-10-2012, 11:40 AM #7
02-10-2012, 01:13 PM #8
But as Airtekh said, the stock weapons in TF2 do the job just as good as the bought items. I've never felt like I had to buy a new weapon, just like to throw some money at the game every now and then for being fun. Skill is much more important than how much you have payed.
02-10-2012, 01:34 PM #9
In all honesty though, like 99% of the weapons released in TF2 are garbage (not including the class update weapons i.e. ubersaw, axetinguisher, dead ringer, etc, etc, etc).
TF2 is not pay 2 win though at all, especially since there is player to player trading. Of course someone will come along and say "I don't like trading and I'm too anti-social to ask a friend for a weapon, so TF2 is pay to win".
02-10-2012, 02:17 PM #10
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
Technically BF3 has an all unlock mode too, but you will never find a non-competition server running it and it will show up as unranked on the browser. BC2 had a similar mode built in too.
Killing Floor lets you access all the weapons, but is a grind-athon with massive benefits for persistent levels (cheaper class weapons, faster reload, larger mag size).
Far Cry 2 had persistent levels and unlocks for guns, I am not sure where you got that from. There were no guns on the map as far as I know. I don't remember guns on the floor for FEAR 2 at all, but I will admit I didn't play that game much. I don't think it had unlocks, but there were no guns on the ground.
Battlefield 2 had persistent unlocks in 2005. BF 2142 was full blown unlocking everything even grenade types and body armor in 2006, so it is hard to say that everything was corrupted by Call of Duty.
Ironically enough, COD4 actually had a guns on the floor mode called Old School --- No one played it.
I personally agree with your assessment of TF2 as people on this forum well know, but the history of leveling in FPS games is a bit wrong here.
I am not sure blame even matters. What matters today is that gamers get "bored" and fill forums with complaints about having nothing to do when leveling is either short (BC2) or gives them no benefits on top of the numbers reached after the short leveling. Gamers are the problem, not the games because even when the mode you are talking about exists or is the core of a game... people don't play it.
Last edited by Misnomer; 02-10-2012 at 02:28 PM.
04-10-2012, 12:08 PM #11
The Regular guns had a ranking system to them and that was a bit obnoxious (like the fact you had to level the PPSh to get the standard issue magazine (!)) but in comparison to other games it was not too bad. Issue I always felt with RO2 was it introduced a ranking system to a game that previously rejected rankings and leveling up aggressively.
Not saying it was not obnoxious, just it was an unnecessary addition to the series.
02-10-2012, 11:13 AM #12
But yeah, I totally agree. The unlocking system probably keeps a good portion of players playing for an extra couple weeks than they would have without it, maybe, but for the core/hardcore audience? I don't think it matters. Most of the hardcore players I know farm (i.e. basically "cheating") all the unlocks so they have everything immediately anyway.
One of the main problems I have with locking things away behind grind walls is that, for me at least, it increases the learning curve in some types of games. I tend to have an easier time learning about all the weapons/equipment in a game by actually using it rather than by being killed with it. So basically, if something keeps killing me and I don't really understand why, I'll play that class or use that weapon until I learn how to counter it. It's hard to do that when things are locked away behind a grind.
I like having lots of options though, I just want them available to me from the get go.
02-10-2012, 11:17 AM #13
Although it was still an unlock system and annoying, Gotham City Imposters had what I think was the right idea. As you leveled up in that you got tokens and coins which would let you unlock weapons. So you got to pick what you unlocked and when, as opposed to something like CoDs, "you hit level 34, here's a random SMG, a skin for something and a perk!".
02-10-2012, 11:55 AM #14
You're right, I did misquote you. TF2 isn't grind-to-win either.
The stock weapons in TF2 are perfectly capable of holding their own in a game. I should know, since I use most of them when I play it.
The weapons that you can buy or receive from drops merely offer alternatives to the standard weapons, but they come with negative attributes as well as positive ones, thus balancing them out.
They're 'sidegrades', not upgrades.
02-10-2012, 12:38 PM #15
If I have 1 option and you have 5 (even if balance us perfect) you can adapt in 4 more ways than me, now consider there are dozens of pieces of equipment which will synergise in various ways.
That is why the side grade argument doesn't work. Less options is not equal.
02-10-2012, 12:47 PM #16
Games wich have this kind of meta-game going on should do what Space Marine does, and let you copy the loadout of the guy wh's just killed you.
02-10-2012, 12:52 PM #17
Less options can be superior though if you get so handy with that one weapon that it won't matter what the other guy has, since you know the nuances and limits of it.
I'll admit it's a bit annoying not having things other people have. I spent ages getting the necessaries for a black box on TF2, only to go back to the stock RPG for soldier since I thought that was still better than the other options all round.
02-10-2012, 01:36 PM #18
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Second of all, if an unlock is plain out better than what is available to you normally then that's the problem with the unlock itself, not the whole thing. These should be sidegrades, not plain upgrades.
02-10-2012, 01:40 PM #19
I do miss the unreal Tournament quake style of doing things, COD and stuff you can't really do the play with your friends quick game of fun really anymore since your friends will have various levels and various different equipment. It can be good the level system in the right game but most use it just to copy COD without actually knowing why they use it
02-10-2012, 01:41 PM #20
WOW A DISCOUNT ON A GUN? THAT'S HARDLY LIKE PAYING FOR IT ALL.
Heh, people really get programmed.
The scout 'stunning' baseball is not a side grade, there is plenty of others that are better, in my opinion at least.