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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misnomer View Post
    RO2 only recently added a standardized no-unlock mode and that is basically outside the ranking system. Before that RO2 had one of the most obnoxious ranking systems ever created, preventing you from using base weapons without unlocks once you earned the new ones.
    Just feel like being pickey here. There were (are?) a grand total of 6 Guns that required to be unlocked in RO2, two being Semi-Auto Snipers, two Pistols and the last two being the elite assault weapons. The Assault weapons were horrifically unbalanced I admit where the Russian one was nigh on useless and the German one being godlike.
    The Regular guns had a ranking system to them and that was a bit obnoxious (like the fact you had to level the PPSh to get the standard issue magazine (!)) but in comparison to other games it was not too bad. Issue I always felt with RO2 was it introduced a ranking system to a game that previously rejected rankings and leveling up aggressively.
    Not saying it was not obnoxious, just it was an unnecessary addition to the series.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    It's not necessarily a problem with game mechanics. More often than not it's just an imbalance in the two teams' skill levels. For instance I can run around as spy in TF2 and maintain a pretty decent KDR and even take out sentry nests, teleporters, and medics along the way, but if my team is garbage we aren't going to win. In a small game (say nothing over 6v6 or so) one lone wolf can definitely carry his team. When it's 12v12 or 16v16? Not really. I mean, you definitely CAN carry the team, but not if the enemy team is completely stacked with skilled players and your team is full of noobs, it's just not going to happen.
    The thing is there are two obvious ways to encourage teamwork. Reward players for teamwork oriented actions OR make players co-dependent on each other. TF2 operates under the latter. If the other team has a medic and you don't, your team is largely screwed. You need medics for uber. If there are sentry guns guarded by engineers you aren't getting past them without an uber, or a spy, possible both.

    You could of course under the former school of design offer soft rewards like points, or even kills, but it just isn't as immediately satisfying - cognitively - as fragging someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Oh god I can see it now. People screaming various racial slurs at each other for stealing "THEIR" objective and getting the bonus kills thing you described. It would be funny.
    This is a small, small price to pay because it at least gives an incentive to loners to actually complete the objective. This might actually in practice mean cooperating together. And who knows, maybe after doing it once they realize its actually pretty fulfilling to work together.

    You could of course also be rewarded by stuff like extra XP which is already something implemented in current games. But imagine if the system was designed with a bit more care so you really do have to work together for the xp reward. Perhaps it could track the amount of time spent around teammates. Perhaps it could be prompted by the player himself. For example, you could specify a "teamwork command" from a drop down list. The other player hears it, follows it, and the system recognizes it because you've specified it, and upon completion a sizeable amount of XP for both. Yay!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    It's not necessarily a problem with game mechanics. More often than not it's just an imbalance in the two teams' skill levels. For instance I can run around as spy in TF2 and maintain a pretty decent KDR and even take out sentry nests, teleporters, and medics along the way, but if my team is garbage we aren't going to win.
    And that's wrong?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamster View Post

    You could of course also be rewarded by stuff like extra XP which is already something implemented in current games. But imagine if the system was designed with a bit more care so you really do have to work together for the xp reward. Perhaps it could track the amount of time spent around teammates. Perhaps it could be prompted by the player himself. For example, you could specify a "teamwork command" from a drop down list. The other player hears it, follows it, and the system recognizes it because you've specified it, and upon completion a sizeable amount of XP for both. Yay!

    People don't seem to realize that BF3 has a system like this. Join a game, create a squad and as squad leader keep giving commands by using the comm rose "Give Order" on flag icons. If your teammate do things within that area you get more points. In fact, if you are very cynical and your team doesn't follow orders, you just keep moving your "command" to wherever they are going. You will almost always end up in the top 5 on the server if you do this....

    Also BF3 gives you more points for team actions if they are done to your squad. More for reviving squad members, more for giving ammo to squad members, more for killing the person who just killed your squad mate (I think though that one may just be for the team). Stuff like that.

    As you said though, most people don't notice and points don't have the psychological impact of a kill. People want to be doing something when playing. Being an MAV pilot may be one of the best team oriented activities in BF3, but people would rather whine for DICE to nerf the soflam than take a crucial individual action to help the team win. How do you design teamwork around that?

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