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  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    Steam Software is live

    And only a month late!

    Available titles: CameraBag 2, GameMaker (has achievements and workshop), ArtRage Studio Pro (added as I was writing this), 3D Mark Vantage.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Ugh... gamemaker.

    I understand that it has (probably) come a lot farther than it used to be, but Valve sure picked a bad launch "title".
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  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
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    Holy crap; Achievements within a software designed to create games that will have achievements. So meta, I'm gonna jump in front of the subway.

    What the hell.

  4. #4
    Lesser Hivemind Node Velko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rauten View Post
    Holy crap; Achievements within a software designed to create games that will have achievements. So meta, I'm gonna jump in front of the subway.
    Ooh! But we have to go deeper. Achievements for creating achievements for a software that is used to create games that will have achievements is the only logical step now.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Ugh... gamemaker.

    I understand that it has (probably) come a lot farther than it used to be, but Valve sure picked a bad launch "title".
    You'll be surprised how many games your playing were made in that thing.

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnicalBen View Post
    You'll be surprised how many games your playing were made in that thing.
    Would you happen to have a list? All I see on the offiical website are kind of what I would expect :p

    And yeah, I suspect they have come a ways (it looks pretty professional). And maybe it is just that I am old enough to remember the early years. But when I see "Game Maker" I think "Ugh, crappy nes-ripoffs"
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  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velko View Post
    Ooh! But we have to go deeper. Achievements for creating achievements for a software that is used to create games that will have achievements is the only logical step now.
    You should earn an achievement for that post.

  8. #8
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    +0


    I don't like more crap diluting my "last releases" lists. This and Trains DLC's can go to hell <-- In a positive, optimistic and not rage-like way :D

  9. #9
    Lesser Hivemind Node Scumbag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tei View Post
    +0


    I don't like more crap diluting my "last releases" lists. This and Trains DLC's can go to hell <-- In a positive, optimistic and not rage-like way :D
    You can filter a lot of the DLC out if you like. Would not be shocked if you could filter out the application software at some point.

  10. #10
    Network Hub Stellar Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scumbag View Post
    You can filter a lot of the DLC out if you like. Would not be shocked if you could filter out the application software at some point.
    Knowing Valve that will take 2 years though.
    Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory since 1982.

  11. #11
    Lesser Hivemind Node johnki's Avatar
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    Cross-posting from another forum, but...

    Not going to lie, Game Maker Studio on Steam is actually really cool. The fact that they let you upload your games directly to Steam Workshop gives people trying to get free games on Steam through Greenlight a nice avenue onto Steam, granted they use some form of Game Maker.


    Here's hoping to see more like that. :)

  12. #12
    Lesser Hivemind Node TillEulenspiegel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    And maybe it is just that I am old enough to remember the early years. But when I see "Game Maker" I think "Ugh, crappy nes-ripoffs"
    Who cares? Everything technology-related used to be shit.

    I got started developing games with ZZT in the early 90s. Initially, ZZT had 16 colors (I think) and example levels with very simple action/puzzle gameplay. The basic set of objects that you could carry around (gems, torches, ammo, keys) was hardcoded. Then some clever people figured out how to expand the palette to 256 colors and do all sorts of things with the built-in scripting language, and ZZT became a medium for huge multi-path adventure games that told real stories. All of this without ever modifying the original code.

    A bad workman blames his tools, etc etc.

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Is there a way to filter out this crap? That'd be a good feature.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Would you happen to have a list? All I see on the offiical website are kind of what I would expect :p

    And yeah, I suspect they have come a ways (it looks pretty professional). And maybe it is just that I am old enough to remember the early years. But when I see "Game Maker" I think "Ugh, crappy nes-ripoffs"
    Game Maker, prior to maybe version 5 or 6, was pretty bad. It's grown up an awful lot since then, but that has nothing to do with your perfectly valid complaint. The fact is that a whole bunch of people got pirated copies and went and made games. The vast majority are terrible with poor gameplay mechanics and sprites ripped from their favourite NES game. But that's normal for authorware packages. The difference is that Game Maker is very simple to use and has a boatload of tutorials around for it. In other packages they'd start, hit a brick wall (for example in Unity they might not be able to do the vector math), and you'd never see their project. With Game Maker it was much easier, so they went on to release those abysmal attempts and the app got recognised as being used to make shit games.

    Which is a shame, because GM is capable of some pretty cool stuff. It's no UDK, but it's not bad. I think it's overpriced now though.

  15. #15
    Lesser Hivemind Node johnki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Would you happen to have a list? All I see on the offiical website are kind of what I would expect :p

    And yeah, I suspect they have come a ways (it looks pretty professional). And maybe it is just that I am old enough to remember the early years. But when I see "Game Maker" I think "Ugh, crappy nes-ripoffs"
    If that's what you think, you're probably looking in the wrong place.

    Super Crate Box is an indie sensation and it was made in Game Maker, for example. Immortal Defense was also made in Game Maker.

    XNA is a library for C#, but that doesn't stop the boatloads of bad games from coming out on XBLIG.

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Game Maker, prior to maybe version 5 or 6, was pretty bad. It's grown up an awful lot since then, but that has nothing to do with your perfectly valid complaint. The fact is that a whole bunch of people got pirated copies and went and made games. The vast majority are terrible with poor gameplay mechanics and sprites ripped from their favourite NES game. But that's normal for authorware packages. The difference is that Game Maker is very simple to use and has a boatload of tutorials around for it. In other packages they'd start, hit a brick wall (for example in Unity they might not be able to do the vector math), and you'd never see their project. With Game Maker it was much easier, so they went on to release those abysmal attempts and the app got recognised as being used to make shit games.

    Which is a shame, because GM is capable of some pretty cool stuff. It's no UDK, but it's not bad. I think it's overpriced now though.
    Yeah, Unity has a lot of garbage too and UDK doesn't really have much of anything in the "hobbyist" department.

    I dunno, I just see Game Maker and think "crap". Maybe I am in the minority, but I still think emphasizing something that doesn't have the stigma for the older gamers (who are the ones who tend to actually BUY software) isn't the smartest move.
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  17. #17
    Lesser Hivemind Node RobF's Avatar
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    Everything has a lot of garbage made with it. *Everything*. Having been writing and reporting on indie games for 10 years now, I can pretty much assure you that GM certainly doesn't have a monopoly and shit things being made with it. Some of the worst stuff I've *ever* played has been hand rolled by "competent" coders and some of the best stuff has been made in GM or MMF or Twine or whatever "easy" game creation tool you want to flag up.

    GM:Studio is a fantastic piece of work and I'm so, so happy to see it roll out with Steam Workshop integration now. For speedy iOS/Android development, it's second to none really. For 2d games elsewhere, whilst Unity is perfectly capable, it'll be a lot less hassle using Studio unless you really need some of the features Unity uses. Most people won't. It's all about the right tool for the right job and for making the right games and if anyone wants either an introduction to making games or a seriously rock solid tool for making 2d games, GM *now* is pretty much a force to be reckoned with. If anything, it's the perfect game making tool to throw onto Steam because it bridges both extremes ably. There was a time a few years back where it was left to stagnate but forget that now, this is a seriously good piece of kit. There's a reason it's getting strong studio uptake, right?

    I've barely scratched the surface of what Studio can do compared to the old DX8 versions of Gamemaker and I've had screens bursting with objects at native 720p running at 60fps without the thing blinking and it scales down to lower end machines really fucking well too. Heck, had I been a bit less cautious and more bold, I could have probably gone 1080 and it still wouldn't flinch. I'm looking forward to being able to start something new soon so I get to use the new audio engine and in a couple of months when shaders land, why the heck would I need -anything- else for making 2d games? Aside from a faster Mac so I can actually test my stuff on there properly because my 2006 MBP won't cut it, natch.

    So yeah, if you "see GameMaker and think crap", good for you. You're one of a tiny minority of people prejudiced by what something is made in. The rest of the world simply do not give a flying fuck and rightly they shouldn't because it doesn't matter. I've got 3,000+ sales of my own stuff in the past three weeks that says no-one gives a monkeys and another 6 years ticking along before that. What matters is that there's Stealth Bastard out there now and it's amazing, Spelunky is out there now and it is amazing and so the list goes on. In a few weeks Hotline Miami will be out there and no-one will give a fuck that it's made in Gamemaker. And if you put what they were wrote in above what they are, that's your loss, man. You're missing out on some of the best game experiences out there.

    This is a fantastic opportunity to further democratise game creation, even in the limited form GMS:Free has that's a trainwreck or twelve to be made from it to get started (and there's fairly easy ways around the limits *anyway* if you're smart). Yes, there will be shit but that's OK. There will be more people learning to make games and from that, we *will* get good things. We always do.

    This is fairly massive stuff, y'know? Fairly brilliant massive stuff.
    Last edited by RobF; 03-10-2012 at 03:42 AM.
    My actions are in no way born out of some sort of Darwinist offensive
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  18. #18
    Lesser Hivemind Node johnki's Avatar
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    Anyone else mull it over for a minute and realize that the Game Maker Workshop is going to have to be heavily policed for seriously inappropriate material? I mean, take a look at what happened to Greenlight VERY shortly after it started. All sorts of references to terrorism and sexcapades. And now there's a way to get GAMES on Steam for free.

    This will be a great thing, regardless, but I'd rather that none of that nonsense start happening in droves.

    @RobF: I kept hearing the GMS runner was a lot better, but daaaaamn. If you'd told me a year ago that GM had a new runner in development that could do that, I might have laughed. I think I'm officially sold on the upgrade once I have the money again.

  19. #19
    Lesser Hivemind Node RobF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnki View Post

    @RobF: I kept hearing the GMS runner was a lot better, but daaaaamn. If you'd told me a year ago that GM had a new runner in development that could do that, I might have laughed. I think I'm officially sold on the upgrade once I have the money again.
    Yeah, it surprised me. DRM was done a good 60% in non-Studio GM and it's pushing up against the limits of what I could push around with my scrappy techniques/time I had to throw it together in that. It suffers for it. I mean, not massively I don't think because I was kinda careful sometimes but still, the extra leeway Studio gives me... had I known more than a fortnight or so before having to throw it out how much more I could get away with, I'd have been a lot more slap happy and definitely wouldn't have capped the FPS at 40 and would have targeted 1080 over 720p.

    It's more work than I can be arsed with to fix all the timings and stuff to make it so now but next time and the next thing...

    And this is a program up until a year or so back I was ready to write off as fading into obsolescence due to neglect and readying myself to "do a Marshall" (as it shall now be known) and cut my losses and move on elsewhere. I didn't expect to see it get to where it is now pretty much ever, so credit to TeamYoYo, they've done wonders and pulled it back. It's now the little tool that can.

    I don't think I'd have laughed a year or so ago, I'd have just held my hands and cried at the impossibility of the new runner ever emerging, especially after the terrible Mac version.

    They really need to get those shaders ready stat though, they're the things that are dating it more than anything else. They're down for 1.2 on the roadmap which is next up so fingers crossed.
    My actions are in no way born out of some sort of Darwinist offensive
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  20. #20
    Lesser Hivemind Node johnki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    They really need to get those shaders ready stat though, they're the things that are dating it more than anything else. They're down for 1.2 on the roadmap which is next up so fingers crossed.
    That and the aged multiplayer components. Can't wait for the new multiplayer components at, what, 1.4 I think? Maybe it was 1.3...anyways, with the lack of real support for Faucet (even from the community), and the complex manner in which pretty much everything in 39dll is done, it'll be nice to have an official solution that works.

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