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  1. #1

    [AAR] Tactical Tuesday 2nd October - Meat-Grinder 2: Grind Harder

    An excellent session, despite some minor mission mishaps. Thanks to the +40 people who came along tonight, I hope you enjoyed yourselves.

    Mission list:

    • Rolling Matryoshka
    • 2 Days from retirement (replacing FuelRaid)
    • Shilkas of Nur
    • Goosechase (testing)
    I'm Respecting your culture!

  2. #2
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    It might be just me, and it will probably pass in a few minutes, but i have to say i was disappointed by the huge comms clusterfuck in Shilkas of Nur.
    Spend the whole mission tying to keep manually track of what was happening in my own fireteam, not getting any response from two of my teammates during the whole mission. Means I could never keep the pace with Fer (Alpha Lead), having to constantly delay my answers and urge my mates to follow the momentum (man the number of times my STHud was empty, while my team was full strength).
    After dying at the hand of an anti-RPG tank, i stuck in the Alpha channel, only to discover that twenty minutes after my death, Fer hadn't even been made aware of that incident. And to listen him talking to Joe, Head, (myself) and the wind, while most of the people here were ramboing away.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    Thanks for hosting, Strang. It was a good session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Mamba View Post
    It might be just me, and it will probably pass in a few minutes, but i have to say i was disappointed by the huge comms clusterfuck in Shilkas of Nur.
    Spend the whole mission tying to keep manually track of what was happening in my own fireteam, not getting any response from two of my teammates during the whole mission. Means I could never keep the pace with Fer (Alpha Lead), having to constantly delay my answers and urge my mates to follow the momentum (man the number of times my STHud was empty, while my team was full strength).
    After dying at the hand of an anti-RPG tank, i stuck in the Alpha channel, only to discover that twenty minutes after my death, Fer hadn't even been made aware of that incident. And to listen him talking to Joe, Head, (myself) and the wind, while most of the people here were ramboing away.
    That is def. a problem we need to tackle. I'd say that coordination and teamwork has improved a lot compared to older sessions but it's still lackluster in places, with people ramboing off and failing basic comms. The FOLK sessions are good example of functioning teamwork in a non-milsim environment and I'd hope we can work towards that standard, both by general encouragement of said attitude on TT and workshops like the one Tiger hosted.

    People need to remember that your attitude and behavior ingame effects others experience immensely and in a game such as ArmA failing to work as a team can ruin everyone's fun. The server is open nearly 24/7 and if you're itching for some less than serious, one-man-army action then by all means organize a domi session or other stuff, but please keep that sort of attitude out of TT.
    Last edited by Wolfenswan; 02-10-2012 at 11:29 PM.

  4. #4
    Network Hub fer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Mamba View Post
    ... while most of the people here were ramboing away.
    Shilkas of Nur began well, with some great supporting work by all the squads. But after Wolfenswan died, and I had to step up as combined CO/ASL, it became quite easily the most frustrating 45 minutes I've ever had in a Tactical Tuesday. Despite some good work by de facto BSL Vorrin and the CSL, by the last third I don't think I had any form of meaningful command over 30-50% of our remaining troops. It wasn't a case of comms failure, it was people failing to respect the fact that - in a mission - we work as an organised platoon, with pre-determined elements, roles and a chain of command. Watching medics freelance around with RPGs, or having to call individuals back after they simply ran off to engage enemies (abandoning the elements they were supposed to stick with) ... this is not the kind of gameplay the session is about.

    Mission makers and hosts have put a huge amount of time into providing all the components for a tactical experience; for the vast majority of players, all that is asked in return is that you show up and play your designated roles with consideration for others around you. When a minority players cannot abide by this simple proposition it is hugely disappointing, and potentially de-motivating for the relatively small group of individuals that give up so much of their spare time on your behalf.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by fer View Post
    Watching medics freelance around with RPGs,
    I assume you're talking about myself and Head, I resent the implication that we were just fucking around this mission. For one thing if we hadn't picked up RPGs you would have been killed by that T-72, it was Head who got the crucial hit on its rear plating. I spent the vast majority of the mission right next to you and tried to help you figure out what was going on when things got confusing and people weren't responding on Mumble.It's true I was out of position when SAM1 asked for a medic, but you'd already ordered Alpha to move in on CSL's right flank, and since myself and Zitron were the only survivors of Alpha I assumed you meant me. I pushed on and got pinned down taking out the Dishka that killed Head. At this point in the mission people were just running up the hill disregarding your orders because all that remained to be done was to RPG the shilka and get it over and done with.

    Also Head was bugged and couldn't medic people anyway.

  6. #6
    Network Hub fer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph-Sulphur View Post
    At this point in the mission people were just running up the hill disregarding your orders because all that remained to be done was to RPG the shilka and get it over and done with.
    That illustrates the issue very neatly. If it's acceptable for a mob/blob mentality to take over when a proportion of players no longer deem co-ordinated action to be required, then we've departed significantly from the intent of Tactical Tuesday.

    I deliberately avoided mentioning specific names because I think the issue you so neatly described above is more important, and a collective one for us to address together.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fer View Post
    That illustrates the issue very neatly. If it's acceptable for a mob/blob mentality to take over when a proportion of players no longer deem co-ordinated action to be required, then we've departed significantly from the intent of Tactical Tuesday.
    Yeah, you're right. But if we get to the point where coordinated action really isn't required, shouldn't the commander have a responsibility to just get things over and done with so we can play the next mission?

    I deliberately avoided mentioning specific names because I think the issue you so neatly described above is more important, and a collective one for us to address together.
    Well its pretty obvious who you were talking about so if you think its beneath you to explain why you've publicly called someone out don't do it in the first place.

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    Rolling Matryoshka
    Commander


    Oh dear this felt like a really stupid idea to take commander for, but oh well i am a crazy swede


    Anyway some briefing screws-up by me, Were off, Inital contact goes fine.I get shot by sniper,Some minor losses
    Factory Secured , moved there and then the shit hit the fan,Honestly i should have been quicker on the horn, maybe consolidate my forces a tad (Was there an option for HAT?) never the less, In general i was too far behind, not getting the information i needed (Mostly my fault)


    This was a royal fuck up planning wise, spread my forces too thin,idiotic shit plan.

    I'm sorry guys.



    2 Days from Retirement
    A1 FTL


    Was bored,died

    I still think this mission needs have its loadout tweaked, AK's? and MP5 for cops is pretty eh



    Shilkas of Nur
    DC Medic

    Found out quickly that my medical stuff was bugged as i was unable to save Kefirz.

    Milled around with Charlie after much battle was sent back to Alpha, rejoined helped them push, took out a tank, got killed by a bunker KORD someone forgot to mention.

  9. #9
    Network Hub Kefirz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Head View Post

    Found out quickly that my medical stuff was bugged as i was unable to save Kefirz.
    Dude I was so frustrated with that... ''Head don't let me die... awww, ffs'' ..loading spectator script.

  10. #10
    Lesser Hivemind Node Harlander's Avatar
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    Well-intentioned, I took FTL on two of these missions (the first and third) but it only served to highlight the growing realisation that I'm really no good at it. I just can't concentrate on maintaining situational awareness as well as commanding the FT while trying to parse the tumult of voices on mumble to find out what I'm supposed to be doing. I can barely manage one of those at a time..

    Fortunately, at least in Shilkas, my FT managed to spot and often neutralise most of the contacts I couldn't spot. Nice work, guys.

    Anyway, I'll refrain from inflicting my experiments in command on unwitting TT players in future.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wolfenswan's Avatar
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    2 Days from Retirement
    A1 FTL

    Was bored,died

    I still think this mission needs have its loadout tweaked, AK's? and MP5 for cops is pretty eh
    Unpbo it, tweak it, we can play it ;)
    Last edited by Wolfenswan; 03-10-2012 at 12:05 PM.

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    1) It is the commander's role to decide what action is required.

    2) The fact he didn't publicly call someone out meant either there was several people doing it, or he wanted others to take note. Perhaps both.

  13. #13
    Hey Joe....I normally don't mind the unique style you bring to the game :-) In fact I often find it quite amusing :-)
    But I have to admit...on Sunday you were behaving out of the ordinary but last night you had the dick factor turned up high.

    What gives dude?

    I'm not as politically correct as the others so I'll just come out and say it. Why such a dick last night? It started from the minute you over reacted to my arrival (albeit for comedy value) until the moment you typed "cunt" in chat and then tried to defend it. Then continued with the whole "fuck it...I'll just do what I want" mentality.

    I mean...I'm not trying to tell you that ARPS or Folk is about restricting your freedom. You can type whatever you want. I guess the point is that:

    a) your actions as a veteran of ARPS set a bad example to others who may be newer or just joining (and reflect badly on us in general...if it was my first night last night I might never have come back tbh). You may not care about this but you should. If you don't believe that as a veteran of a community you sort of defacto take on a responsibility to behave just a cut above the rest then I would ask myself why even bother being a part of this.

    b) The large majority of us simply don't want to see anyone referred to as "cunts". Are we censoring...not really...I mean like I said....you still typed it several times...I guess we just believe that whilst that language may be acceptable in any number of other social situations (situations in which I might even use that word), we want to create a community where the bar is set a little higher. Maybe it's a maturity thing...I dunno.

    So you know.....I least I am telling it to you honestly. I don't need to break this down into a point by point synopsis of what happened. I just wanted to say that I was surprised. I know you are better (and funnier) than that. Tell me this was just the end of a bad day or week and that we can come back from the place we left last night.

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    It's interesting to see that Charlie wasn't the only squad having constant comms fuck ups in Shilkas of Nir.

    What started promisingly quickly turned sour when a Humvee was lost and it took precious minutes to verify if anyone from the occupying fireteam was still alive. Things then got worse as players failed to follow orders to move up, decided to engage extremely distant targets with small arms and failed to report deaths - i only learnt of a fire team leaders death when i saw him leave the server.
    By the time the end of the mission was reached, the remaining two members decided to charge towards the last shilka despite me asking them to hold back. In their defence, they were already engaged before I got given the order to pass down.

    Regarding medics with ATs - i did ask members of Charlie which included Head at the time to pick up any AT they came across for obvious reasons.

    Apoligies for my comms over CC - my responses were often crude and vague and I was often slow at passing orders down the chain.

    (Charlie squad lead, if you hadn't guessed)

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    Rolling Matryoshka: Charlie Something? AAR

    I think I was one of the first to die this mission
    , which makes a change - it's been a few months since I had that much glory. Not a great deal to say - charged across an open field, came under fire, went prone, crawled, got headshotted. Ah well, at least the rest of my team lived for a good 20 mins more.

    I think I pissed off my FTL (Toppo) after the mission by saying the eventual death of our fireteam wasn't his fault. It looked like it was true though - an enemy squad (separate from the other contacts they'd previous engaged) just happened to crest a wooded ridge line right on top of where the fireteam had set up. Even in spectate mode, I couldn't even see them approach until the shooting started.

    2 Days from Retirement: A2 Dude, maaaan
    Second time ever defending on this map (the first saw me sit in a room for the duration), so I was frequently confused about our location and situation. Once my FTL had died and someone in A1 shouted to fall back, I ran but hesitated when I noticed other members of my fireteam staying put. Unsure if it was just A1 that was supposed to move, I retook my position only to watch everyone else die and realise I was effectively surrounded. Cue much running around like a headless chicken until Wolf put me out of my misery.

    Missions: 2 Enemies sighted: 0 Bullets fired: 0

    Shilkas of Nur: Bravo 2 AAR + Bravo HMMWV Gunner

    Considering I'd only operated as a gunner twice before (1: Survived with no kills. 2: Got taken out by a BDRM within 30 seconds), I wasn't looking forward to joining Draakon in the Bravo vehicle. I have to apologise if there was any coms issues between us as he kept hopping in and out of the vehicle, and I'd wrongly assumed Vehicle channel on VON would be the best one to use (as I was in a different group). Had to be my own driver and scootch the HMMWV back and forth a few times, and stupidly opened up on a M113 (there was a certain panic over comms when it appeared, so I assumed the "throw everything you've got at it" tactic was called for), but I don't think I did too badly. Got a reasonable number of kills, some good hits on the chopper that flew over, and sorted out an enemy squad that had snuck up behind us. Would probably have more but wasn't confident to open up without authorisation.

    Sadly, we were done for by a projectile of the high explosive variety. My inexperience showed when I sat in the burning vehicle for a good few minutes before realising I was alive and asking for help. My rescuers were then incapacitated by an explosion, and I finally turned from "golden brown" to "extra crispy". Sorry Halop, jRides, etc. - I hope my corpse contained enough cool loot to make up for the injuries.

    Missed out on the comms issues in the rest of the mission.

    Test Mission

    Forgot the name of this one, but I enjoyed it, survived it, and killed some naughty men to boot. Thanks to Head for taking out an enemy soldier stood 2 metres away from me that I somehow neglected to notice. I tend to be a bit reckless when running to deliver first aid.

  16. #16
    You're right Tiger. I'll tone it down in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Issus View Post
    and stupidly opened up on a M113 (there was a certain panic over comms when it appeared, so I assumed the "throw everything you've got at it" tactic was called for)
    This is actually a good idea, the gunner of the M113's head is exposed so if you pour fire on it you'll take him out quite fast. Also the M113 has really thin armour, I'm pretty sure that a .50 cal can penetrate at least its rear armour.

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    I think it will make mincemeat of all its armour tbh. Might be worth testing if accurate hits to the gunner ring go straight through and hit the gunner.

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    I got killed by a .50 cal in a LAV (from the front) the other day, so yeah, if you're close enough, you'll kill everybody inside.

  19. #19
    I was thinking about this stuff because Alpha 2's humvee got absolutely murdered by a Dishka in the woods south of Nur, and that was an up-armoured one too. I might test some of that stuff, I don't really know how Arma models the different properties of vehicle armour and bullet penetration. Might save us from wasting our RPGs on light vehicles when we could be saving them for angry T-72s.

  20. #20
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    I just threw a Humvee with an M2 mounted, and a M113 in the editor, fired on the M113, it blew up in less than 4 seconds of sustained fire.

    You can actually even kill the gunner of a BMP-2 quite easily. Don't count on killing the driver though, plus i don't recommend you do that anyway.
    Last edited by Black Mamba; 04-10-2012 at 09:49 PM.

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