I expect to accept complexity- except extra excess is less than excellent
I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
There's nothing inherently wrong with that. Planescape: Torment wasn't a bad game because it didn't reinvent the genre. Neither was KotoR or Mass Effect. It's nice to see a game with new mechanics, but it's just as nice to see a game that uses preexisting mechanics well.
I originally wrote this post in the Brenda Brathwaite and Tom Hall Kickstarter thread:
If I understand you correctly, and please do correct me if I don't, you're annoyed because the RPS staff criticized Project: Eternity for appealing to nostalgia and lacking any innovative features. It's perhaps an unfortunate choice of words, but it's understandable. They are gaming journalists, they are excited about innovation and new ideas. It's why they devote so many articles to indie titles that feature a unique concept.
What I'm trying to say is that there's no problem with looking back fondly at the past. It's okay to be nostalgic for old RPGs because many of them were genuinely fantastic. And it's okay to support Eternity because you liked those older games. When people on this forum use the word nostalgia they often don't mean it in a derogatory sense. No one thinks less of you because you want another Baldur's Gate.
Well, that was a lot of words about very little. If you actually bothered to read the entire post, help yourself to a cookie. You earned it.
I don't desire these features because of happy childhood memories (I didn't even play any RPG's before 2003). I want them because I enjoy them (when they are implemented well), just like I enjoy the challenging action combat of Dark Souls.
It's not nostalgia to like something that isn't mainstream. It's simply having niche tastes. So why didn't Obsidian reference any newer titles then? Because the NWN2 engine wasn't at all suited to controlling a whole party in combat and Obsidian wasn't involved in Dragon's Age or Drakensang. Not to mention that Obsidian's design philosophies differ from Bioware's recent offerings.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the majority of Project:Eternity backers aren't RPG fans who like character creation, party-based combat and some complexity in their games. Maybe they all just want to relive their rose-tinted memories of playing Baldur's Gate in high school.
Last edited by thesisko; 06-10-2012 at 10:27 PM.
So who else is up for forming a disciples of Wizardry club?
I'm so bored with this dumb rose tinted glasses bullshit. I like certain older games because of the game play not because of some stupid first time I played an rpg or mmo type crap.
This has been a pretty interesting read, if for nothing else, then the fact that Wizardry has basically finally convinced me he's in fact a hell of a lot more on the right track than the wrong (or a design dead end or whatever you want to call it).
I may not be super familiar with the games he often talks about, having started my RPG diet on Ultima 7, Lands of Lore and Betrayal at Krondor (which I still think is great) and then moved on the Baldur's Gate and Fallout and the given up on most cRPGs again in recent years, but the stuff he's said about skill systems has got me convinced that most RPGs are going about it the wrong way.
I've been unable to really put a finger on my dissatisfaction but now think it has to do with the ever decreasing importance of the rule sets and mechanics. There's a reason I prefer to play a PnP session with my mates where we play our characters as a character and not an extension of ourselves only in armor. I think I forgot about that somewhere along the way.
That said, I'll still buy Project Eternity.
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory since 1982.
I once tried to argue on MMORPG.com that MMOs are RPGs and therefore the capabilities should come from the character and not the player. So no LoL or Starcraft style APM being the most important thing in combat and so forth. Started quite the firestorm of people aiming their brain feces at me. MMOs should be about using your brain to create a stellar and unique character from an open set of skills and stats and such I said. "Go **** your sister while I **** your mother and throw my **** at you" they said to me. Forum PVP is the only real PVP I guess :P
It feels like people want to bring fighting games into RPGs these days. And god forbid that classes play in different styles for different factions.
Also I remember one argument that I started where RPGs should feel like and have the same options as those of characters in fantasy novels. Using the environment like Drizzt dropping an icicle on the dragon for instance. Having a certain situation only solvable by a certain kind of character, having magic be rare but powerful and what not. These days it feels like basic warrior classes have as much magic as a mage in RPGs. That one didn't go so well either.
Last edited by MoLAoS; 07-10-2012 at 09:02 PM.
Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.
Why is Kickstarter mainly referencing old works... I don't know, perhaps this will be an example.
Kickstarter in a parallel universe where "nostalgia" related comments don't exist:
Think they would get much interest, perhaps only from lawyers?Hey, I've got this new game. It's totally new, but if you want something to compare it to, it's going to be like Halo 5/COD8/Battlefield 4
Kickstarter currently has people referencing old games, because that won't get too much IP suits on their case. It also means people can think of what it's like, but not the same as. They may think of the gameplay, and not the artistic style. Where as if they relate to current games, people will expect a AAA game on a shoestring budget. If you compare your game to "a modern version of Quiver" they think of what improvements you can make. If you say "it's like a £50,000 COD", well, they will be thinking of what you cut to get it in budget. :P
So it's not really nostalgia, it's finding what they can relate the audence to and what the budget allows.
Last edited by TechnicalBen; 07-10-2012 at 08:23 PM.
ignore the provocative trolls, they are just that.
And yes, I understand what you said. I am also in favour of making such an RPG, which has all the options, not just progression streamlined into combat experience points. I mean, I get that they are making these games, they used to exist in pen and paper as well, they have a very basic feel to it, almost earthly, tribal, dreamlike, but I do like complex themes and solutions; simply things that make you think, instead of make you live a world that is simpler.