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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Basically, its about something called "Zweckentfremdung" in German. And if theres a word for it in german, it must be something.
    I think what you are trying to say is that charities get instrumentalized, thereby devaluing themselves because at some point people won't give money to one unless it's bundled with a reward.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Okay then. Please, enlighten us.

    What are the long term dangers of giving sick children toys to play with while they are in a god damned hospital?
    Baby, enlightening you is the last thing on my mind.

    What I wanted to do and did, was to point out faulty logic in what Jesus_Phish said. Just reread his/her post and saw another interesting thing:

    Ever see the face of a child who gets brought christmas presents in hospitals on christmas day when they can't be at home with their families?
    That's some cruel families that spend their Christmas at home while one of their kids is at the hospital.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BestFriends4Ever View Post
    Baby, enlightening you is the last thing on my mind.

    What I wanted to do and did, was to point out faulty logic in what Jesus_Phish said. Just reread his/her post and saw another interesting thing:



    That's some cruel families that spend their Christmas at home while one of their kids is at the hospital.
    There is no faulty logic there.

    Doing good stuff for the community or people is good.
    If you are at all conflicted on that, seeing the face of a sick child who just got a toy is a VERY good thing.

    Jesus exaggerated a bit (dude wanted to take credit for stuff happening on his birthday), but seriously, it is a VERY simple concept.

    So rather than compare giving sick children toys with enabling drug users, I suggest getting your head out of your ass and thinking for a moment.
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  4. #24
    Network Hub MD!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    I dont much care for the concept of it (charity in general).
    Can you explain this?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    There is no faulty logic there.

    Doing good stuff for the community or people is good.
    If you are at all conflicted on that, seeing the face of a sick child who just got a toy is a VERY good thing.

    Jesus exaggerated a bit (dude wanted to take credit for stuff happening on his birthday), but seriously, it is a VERY simple concept.

    So rather than compare giving sick children toys with enabling drug users, I suggest getting your head out of your ass and thinking for a moment.
    1) Thus, for the second time, I am not, nor ever was, comparing sick children with addicts. I demonstrated how happy face doesn't necessarily lead to happiness.

    2) It is endearing how you think your simplistic vision of charities is the objective truth and everyone else has their head up their ass.

    I do not think that "doing good" is wrong. I think that wasting resources on treating only the symptoms of a problem is wrong.

    Example: overpopulation - big problem in developing world. Overpopulation leads to high death rate of infants and scarce supplies for poor families. Let's narrow it down - some African children have no clean water and the charities ask us to donate 2 a month. I think it is good that people help those kids get water. However, if some portion of that money is not spent on educating the public (and shutting up the church) about contraceptives, those kids will grow up and have more kids of their own who will need even more clean water.

    Do you ever hear about a charity asking for money to teach about contraceptives in poor communities? I've never seen them anywhere (though there probably are some small ones somewhere). Why we don't hear about them, I think, is because it's not a popular idea. Giving water to thirsty gives people a good fuzzy feeling inside. Putting a condom on strangers dick - less so. Though the latter is much more important.

    And that is what I think about charities - good idea, usually treats only the symptoms.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by internetonsetadd View Post
    The thread title led me to believe the OP was going to be a good read.
    Yeah, it's amazing how fast it went downhill when you found out they have neither a coherent point nor any way of putting it across

    "I hate charities" is a mentalist thing to say - you may as well as admit to fucking chickens for sport.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MD! View Post
    Can you explain this?
    I'd rather they didn't because it's likely to be unpleasantly moronic - if I thought they had some fantastic insight I'd be here with bated breath but I suspect it's something like

    "Because they ask for money for things you shouldn't have to ask for money for"

    or

    "Because I hate plastic tins being shaken"

    or something... something...

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    I dont like the malupative nature that charity advertises to be honest so i get somewhat what the OP was saying but i dont hate charity and guess what in all the bundles you can say no to giving charities any money so whats the problem.

  9. #29
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I do oppose to charities in general, but thats not the point here, hence no, I will not give a coherent or lenghty explanation why.

    What I was getting annoyed about, though, was the instrumentalisation, as c-row understood. In this category, just like the bundles apparently, are also "fundraisers", which is basically just some snobby elitist gettogether, atleast some without the pretence of caring for some kind of "good deed", whatever that means.

    Also, PS: you can have as many charities as you want, thats your choice, I dont have to pay or pay attention to them. like I said, I merely dont agree with it, and this thread is about the "abusing" of them for commercial gain.
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  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BestFriends4Ever View Post
    1) Thus, for the second time, I am not, nor ever was, comparing sick children with addicts. I demonstrated how happy face doesn't necessarily lead to happiness.

    2) It is endearing how you think your simplistic vision of charities is the objective truth and everyone else has their head up their ass.

    I do not think that "doing good" is wrong. I think that wasting resources on treating only the symptoms of a problem is wrong.

    Example: overpopulation - big problem in developing world. Overpopulation leads to high death rate of infants and scarce supplies for poor families. Let's narrow it down - some African children have no clean water and the charities ask us to donate 2 a month. I think it is good that people help those kids get water. However, if some portion of that money is not spent on educating the public (and shutting up the church) about contraceptives, those kids will grow up and have more kids of their own who will need even more clean water.

    Do you ever hear about a charity asking for money to teach about contraceptives in poor communities? I've never seen them anywhere (though there probably are some small ones somewhere). Why we don't hear about them, I think, is because it's not a popular idea. Giving water to thirsty gives people a good fuzzy feeling inside. Putting a condom on strangers dick - less so. Though the latter is much more important.

    And that is what I think about charities - good idea, usually treats only the symptoms.
    The FPA spends up to ten million pounds per year on "straightforward information, advice and support on sexual health, sex and relationships to everyone in the UK." Please respect your fellow forumites and search the fucking web before making completely unfounded assumptions.

    I see we've also arrived at the assertion of "it's not worth funding if there are better causes to give money to". Consider this: just because there are a great number of charities focusing on absolutely essential things like food, water and education doesn't mean there isn't also room for charities who are just there to make hospitalized children happy. It doesn't matter that it's just treating the symptoms, it doesn't even matter that it doesn't benefit society at all. Someone out there is dedicated to making people's lives less miserable, and that's a cause worthy enough.


  11. #31
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    And again, this is not about if charities are good. its about if the "misusing" of charities by bundles is a good thing.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    I do oppose to charities in general, but thats not the point here, hence no, I will not give a coherent or lenghty explanation why.
    So, rest assured, trjp, you are spared the twisted convolutions of reason that QuantaCat apparently uses to justify their dislike of selflessness and virtue.

    What I was getting annoyed about, though, was the instrumentalisation, as c-row understood. In this category, just like the bundles apparently, are also "fundraisers", which is basically just some snobby elitist gettogether, atleast some without the pretence of caring for some kind of "good deed", whatever that means.

    Also, PS: you can have as many charities as you want, thats your choice, I dont have to pay or pay attention to them. like I said, I merely dont agree with it, and this thread is about the "abusing" of them for commercial gain.
    Wow! Now you're comparing the extravagantly luxurious, elite social networking opportunities called fundraisers with an online initiative to provide common people with cheap indie games, with the option to give their contribution to charity? The boggling of the mind never ceases!

  13. #33
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    That. is. Exactly. my. Point.

    Their goal is not to give cheap games to common people. it never was. they never said that. and even if they did, no they dont.

    No matter their intentions, they are selling games. They just appear to be cheap to you, and affordable, and "FOR A GOOD CAUSE!", but they are in fact selling a product. You do know that, right?

    Also, please stop talking about the topic of charity in general, just charities in combination with bundles. Just because you cant envision a reason not to like charities, doesnt mean there isnt one. I am being excellent to all of yall, all I got so far was OMG U R EVUL & omg dis tred sux from a lot.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BestFriends4Ever View Post
    1) Thus, for the second time, I am not, nor ever was, comparing sick children with addicts. I demonstrated how happy face doesn't necessarily lead to happiness.
    Yet again. What the fuck does that have to do with giving toys to sick children? Please, explain to me how that has anything the fuck to do with the topic at hand?

    Charities, like any organization, have issues. Childs Play in particular is one of the better ones because the operating costs are minimal (and handled by alternative revenue streams in many cases). But the concept of "give money so that sick kids can have something to take their minds off of being sick" is a god fucking damned good one so unless you can fucking explain where the bad in that is, shut your fucking trap about it being the same as giving money to a fucking drug addict.
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  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    That. is. Exactly. my. Point.

    Their goal is not to give cheap games to common people. it never was. they never said that. and even if they did, no they dont.

    No matter their intentions, they are selling games. They just appear to be cheap to you, and affordable, and "FOR A GOOD CAUSE!", but they are in fact selling a product. You do know that, right?

    Also, please stop talking about the topic of charity in general, just charities in combination with bundles. Just because you cant envision a reason not to like charities, doesnt mean there isnt one. I am being excellent to all of yall, all I got so far was OMG U R EVUL & omg dis tred sux from a lot.
    Okay, now I'm getting confused. First you assert that their goal is not to sell games for cheap, and then you say thay they are, in fact, selling a product, which just happens to be affliated to a charity? You can see how you're contradicting yourself, can't you?

    I can think of a few good reasons not to give to charity, but being principally opposed to every form of charity is something I can't wrap my head around. And you're not being a bad debater, no. You just have bad arguments and incomprehensible beliefs.

  16. #36
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    and no, it doesnt "just happen to be affiliated to a charity", charities are one of its main selling points. They didnt add the charities because theyre so charitable, they added them to move more units, is basically what Im saying.

    And its getting on my nerves, because apparently, other bundles are copying this business system pretty much identically. so now we have a bunch (atleast 2, I think there is a third?) of bundles that sell stuff, with charities as selling points.

    And all of this is fine, except that they seem to try and convince you otherwise, and nobody seem to really care about it.

    Am I the only one being annoyed by this?
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Am I the only one being annoyed by this?
    THE ONLY ONE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD

    *checks thread*

    Well, you might have C-row on your side, but yeah, everyone else is just dandy.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    The problem is is that they are not foricing you to use there charites you can give all to the developers or all to charities. And actually most advertising I see of bundles say how great the games are not about charities I think charities aren mentioned second like "oh and also its a good cause" to the "Look these games is for cheaps"

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    Also i think your not liking charities is a concern for this topic because well it doesn't look like from your posts that you are just objectivly talking about how its being used for games i feel your biases are coming through here

  20. #40
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    *shrugs*

    Ah well. Lets just let the thread die quietly, and concentrate on XCOM preloading already.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

    "It's frankly embarrassing. The mods on here are woeful."

    "I wrinkled my nose at QC being a mod."

    "At least he has some personality."

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