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  1. #61
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic View Post
    You missed the point here. I and others were calling him out for the part of his post where he was hoping that another person would get his Steam account locked.
    No, I saw that. I also saw posts as "eloquent" as


    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    lol why would you hope anyone got banned for doing this? What the fuck is wrong with you? Seriously? How fucked up are you?
    So yeah. Maybe he was a bit rude, but what do you call someone who spews vitriol to such an obscene and disgusting degree?

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  2. #62
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooop View Post
    Until someone gets smarter and cuts the prices of all-digital media I'm going to keep buying physical copies. No box means no packaging or shipping costs. No reason not to have a lower sales price. Ridiculous.
    What's really ridiculous about it is that a lot of these boxed copies only contain a code for Steam on the CD, and you still have to download the whole thing. I was told by the clerk at Gamestop that this is how their boxed copies of XCom are. I have personally only seen it with the NBA 2k games.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnox View Post
    But why should brick and mortar stores be given this extra allowance?

    Not only are they not providing as good a service as Steam, or even online retailers such as Amazon, they are restricting what we can do with online distribution.
    The sooner we let digital and physical go their separate ways, the better.
    There are physical copies because some people like having boxes and the extras that come with them. If this weren't the case, there'd be no physical copies.

    I'm not one for calling people names, but you are a dick


    Seems to be a contradiction in here somewhere...

  4. #64
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    If you need to get angry about the whole issue, I'd say direct your anger at the dated industry practices that fail to adapt to the reality that is online distribution of media goods and not at someone who points out or experiences the consequences of its flaws.

    Way to make a good first impression with that post.


    Don't care about first impressions. You people seem quite angry (and willing to engage in personal attacks) anyway. As to your first point, I think the industry has "adapted" just fine. People still want physical copies despite the availability of online distribution. Fact. Stores don't want to be screwed because other stories happen to get the game early. Fact. Publishers agree to let stores publish all on one day.

    All this angst (waa waa, I want to play my game two days earlier!!) ignores market realities. Advocating violating end user license agreements is irresponsible and subjects you to all sorts of consequences, as most irresponsible things do.

    And as stupid as having different release dates is, I agree with the underlying concept of "Give brick and mortar a chance, don't screw them entirely".


    Kudos for a well thought out, balanced post.

    Quote Originally Posted by RecklessPrudence View Post
    Yes, I get that. Any other day, I might agree with you. But the set release date to give the brick-and-mortar store equal footing instead means that, despite having the disc that I purchased legally, I cannot play my game. I know my last post was an overreaction. But when the stated purpose is to give brick-and-mortar stores an equal footing, and instead means that the game I purchased from a brick and mortar store is unplayable on the day I purchase it, what's the difference between that and Steam releasing a few days earlier? If the brick and mortar store is going to release before the agreed date anyway, and then, because of the agreement that binds Steam to the agreed date, consumers are unable to play, why even have the agreement? If both parties are not dealing honestly, why come to the table in the first place?

    I'm just frustrated. And hell, I have to use a VPN to log in to my Uni's network to submit some of my assignments, and I'm sure I've accidentally logged into Steam at least once while that software was active.
    The store you purchased the game at messed up by selling it to you. Just because you got an early copy does not mean the release date should change.

    I would not equate using VPN for submitting assignments with bypassing steam restrictions. A ban is still possible for the latter if they're monitoring the game you're playing.
    Last edited by georgetownhoya; 11-10-2012 at 09:45 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgetownhoya View Post

    All this angst (waa waa, I want to play my game two days earlier!!) ignores market realities.
    On the other hand, there's a massive market reality called The Pirate Bay that you're ignoring.

  6. #66
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    Definitely regretting not doing the vpn thing.. just tried to have a quick blast on xcom for a bit before bed and steam spent about 30mins unlocking the game or whatever and then threw out an error. It is now downloading 1.5 gigs of something even though the game was fully pre-loaded.

    It's just a smiling drm system. Hate it.

  7. #67
    Network Hub mnemnoch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jac View Post
    Definitely regretting not doing the vpn thing.. just tried to have a quick blast on xcom for a bit before bed and steam spent about 30mins unlocking the game or whatever and then threw out an error. It is now downloading 1.5 gigs of something even though the game was fully pre-loaded.

    It's just a smiling drm system. Hate it.
    Same situation here. Stayed up until 3am waiting it to be release then when I click play it tells me I need a 1+ gb update. FU
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgetownhoya View Post
    There are physical copies because some people like having boxes and the extras that come with them. If this weren't the case, there'd be no physical copies.
    I wasn't arguing against the removal of physical products, just against the restrictions that having a physical-based dated release system brings.
    The system is to give physical distributors a chance, when they could just step up their game. I'm not sure how releasing on different dates benefits anyone. If a store wants to start stocking the shelf on Tuesday, all the best to them. But don't stop all the other stores selling it on the Saturday it was ready.

    If someone wants their extras, they are free to them.

  9. #69
    Lesser Hivemind Node Faldrath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnemnoch View Post
    Same situation here. Stayed up until 3am waiting it to be release then when I click play it tells me I need a 1+ gb update. FU
    The update has nothing to do with the unlocking, though - it's just the first patch for the game.

    Anyway, to add to the pile of anedoctal evidence: I used Spotflux, spent two days offline on Steam playing xcom, went back online today, no issues whatsoever.

  10. #70
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgetownhoya View Post
    Don't care about first impressions. You people seem quite angry (and willing to engage in personal attacks) anyway.
    Well, we are not all one individual, "we" are not all angry. I haven't engaged in personal attacks but pointed out that this particular part of your first post was unnecessarily aggressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by georgetownhoya View Post
    As to your first point, I think the industry has "adapted" just fine. People still want physical copies despite the availability of online distribution. Fact. Stores don't want to be screwed because other stories happen to get the game early. Fact. Publishers agree to let stores publish all on one day.

    All this angst (waa waa, I want to play my game two days earlier!!) ignores market realities. Advocating violating end user license agreements is irresponsible and subjects you to all sorts of consequences, as most irresponsible things do.
    I disagree with your statement that the market of physical good is up-to-date, at least at a global scale. The difference of release dates is not only between digital and physical distribution but also between physical distribution in country A and physical distribution in country B. Back in the days when there was no digitial distribution the difference in release dates in differenct countries (or continents) was less obvious because you couldn't get your hands on, say an US copy anyways before it game or movie or album was available at your local retail store.

    But since we now have online distribution that doesn't (well, obviously it sometimes does) or wouldn't have to consider borders, it becomes apparent that there is a mismatch between the release of a finished product and an artificial waiting period until this product is available.

    I really don't care about having to wait 2 or 3 days for a game. What bothers me is the overall idea that despite the fact that the game is available you are not allowed to access it (see someone's post above - you sometimes even have to download the game, despite having the "physical" copy sitting on your desk).

    Also, market realities are that most people would by the game in a digital format if that would allow them to play the game earlier. I think that was an implications of your post. I just don't see why retail stores don't want to be competitive and either adjust the distribution / shipping dates or offer a product that actually still has a physical form that matters in some way.
    Last edited by Squiz; 12-10-2012 at 07:42 AM.

  11. #71
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Say it with me children: Two wrongs don't make a right
    Yeah but some people just dont get banned, no matter how much shit they say.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

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  12. #72
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    I tried VPN + Spotrlux combo to unlock the game early but it didn't work so I gave up, I didn't have much time back then anyway. Yesterday XCOM unlocked fine and I played for three hours straight but as soon as I quit update started and after update finished game failed to launch asking me to wait politely for the release date. This morning it lauched ok. I uninstalled spotflux and disabled VPN before launching the game on rlease. Still sometimes STEAM thinks I'm in US and offers prices in USD. Weird.

  13. #73
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgetownhoya View Post
    All this angst (waa waa, I want to play my game two days earlier!!) ignores market realities.
    The reality is that I'm a paying customer, one that pre-ordered, and I have the game sitting on my harddrive but I am locked out of it. There is something seriously wrong when a person who pirates the game gets a better service than a paying customer. Regional release dates are not helping the retail sector that you so love. Think how many people from Europe and other territories who decided to pirate the game and play it now instead of paying £30 and playing it in 3 days time.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    The reality is that I'm a paying customer, one that pre-ordered, and I have the game sitting on my harddrive but I am locked out of it. There is something seriously wrong when a person who pirates the game gets a better service than a paying customer. Regional release dates are not helping the retail sector that you so love. Think how many people from Europe and other territories who decided to pirate the game and play it now instead of paying £30 and playing it in 3 days time.
    Thieves generally get better service than paying customers. They get things for free, which is the best service you can get. Thieves are also great at thinking up justifications (ie the three-day wait) and rationalizations for their criminal behavior. Don't see how that's relevant.

    I really don't care about having to wait 2 or 3 days for a game. What bothers me is the overall idea that despite the fact that the game is available you are not allowed to access it (see someone's post above - you sometimes even have to download the game, despite having the "physical" copy sitting on your desk).

    Also, market realities are that most people would by the game in a digital format if that would allow them to play the game earlier. I think that was an implications of your post. I just don't see why retail stores don't want to be competitive and either adjust the distribution / shipping dates or offer a product that actually still has a physical form that matters in some way.


    Do you realize you have to "wait" for content in almost every industry, even though it's ready for release? Movie studios could digitally release some movies years before they ever see a theater. Or how about exams at university -- many are given to all students, before being unlocked at a set time due to fairness concerns.

    Trust me, retailers would love to have the game before Steam gets its hands on it. Because Steam doesn't have to deal with shipping times or packaging or handling, that's often not possible.

    I'm not sure how releasing on different dates benefits anyone. If a store wants to start stocking the shelf on Tuesday, all the best to them. But don't stop all the other stores selling it on the Saturday it was ready.


    I suspect the distributors said they can have the game ready in US stores by a certain date, and UK stores by a slightly later date. Remember, these games travel on boats for god's sakes. Rather than make everyone wait, 2K released ASAP in all countries.

    If a store gets the game a day early, that disadvantages other stores and makes them justifiably upset.

    On the other hand, there's a massive market reality called The Pirate Bay that you're ignoring.


    People will always steal. Their reasons change, because people want to feel good about being criminals, but they will always steal. When countries try to stop them, they claim their "Internet freedoms" are being challenged. The only way to deal with thieves is to arrest and/or sue them.





    Last edited by georgetownhoya; 12-10-2012 at 05:15 PM.

  15. #75
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgetownhoya View Post
    Thieves generally get better service than paying customers. They get things for free, which is the best service you can get. Thieves are also great at thinking up justifications (ie the three-day wait) and rationalizations for their criminal behavior. Don't see how that's relevant.
    It's relevant because you need to make buying the game as attractive as possible. Regional release dates are a massive own goal for the retail industry aswell as a huge inconvenience for the customer. We are not saying digital outlets should be able to sell the game before retail. We are arguing that everywhere should have the same release date. I don't know why your getting so defensive about something that will help the (European and elsewhere) retail sectors.

  16. #76
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    It's relevant because you need to make buying the game as attractive as possible. Regional release dates are a massive own goal for the retail industry aswell as a huge inconvenience for the customer. We are not saying digital outlets should be able to sell the game before retail. We are arguing that everywhere should have the same release date. I don't know why your getting so defensive about something that will help the (European and elsewhere) retail sectors.
    How will having to restructure and reschedule everything help them?

    Will it help the gamer? Sure

    Retail? Not so much. Because now they need to reschedule when they receive every single shipment of new shinies (which may impact costs) and tell all their customers the new details. All for what? So that people using DD services don't have to deal with regional restrictions? The people NOT using said services are really unaffected anyway since they are basically used to picking up the game on those dates.

    All to avoid one or two days of knowing other people are playing a game...
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    The people NOT using said services are really unaffected anyway since they are basically used to picking up the game on those dates.
    Nope, lots of those people are on the internet getting annoyed also. Digital distribution is going to keep growing, and once it reaches a certain point, keeping Steam and the people buying online happy will be more important than the shops. And so they'll have no regional release dates online. At which point the shops will have a fit: "but now everyone is buying online instead of from us three days later". To which no-one will have any sympathy as they've had the best part of a decade to sort it out and didn't bother because they didn't think it'd 'help them'.

  18. #78
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    deano - exactly, it's already started to happen. For years and years Game (in the UK) treated publishers and devs like crap (forcing games off Steam, release dates, forcing second hand sales) and then suddenly they ran out of cash and EA refused them credit to get their revenge. As soon as internet connections can handle digital downloads easily the retail sector will collapse.

  19. #79
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    I've been wondering for a while, actually, while Gamestop in the US makes ridiculous amounts of money, while GAME in the UK struggles to make rent. Despite providing the same service.

    Perhaps this has something to do with it. Walking to the shop on release date is the one way to guarantee getting the game the day it comes out. The postal service is never that reliable, so saving a few quid on Amazon might not be worth it.

    But of course, if you go to the shop on Tuesday in the US, you get to be one of the first people to play the game, first to discuss it on the internet, it feels special. By Friday, when you go buy it in the UK, that's gone. The internet has been playing it for days already. You're not getting it 'first'. As such, the UK are more likely to use Amazon, as getting it on Saturday instead of Friday is far less of a deal than being in the US and getting it on Wednesday instead of Tuesday.

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