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  1. #641
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    For those with control problems I highly recommend using a 360 controller if you have one. The navigation is a lot smoother, although switching between your units can be annoying.

  2. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgetownhoya View Post
    XCOM was great for one playthrough. Lasted me about 10 hours before I beat it on Classic. But I had zero desire to replay. Really was not expecting that.
    This is exactly how I feel as well, except a few more hours and on normal (shush). I was really enjoying it, and started up a second game right away. But I just.. didnt play it, and dont feel like it. Maybe in a few months, or if they release a proper expansion/DLC..

  3. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wengart View Post
    For those with control problems I highly recommend using a 360 controller if you have one. The navigation is a lot smoother, although switching between your units can be annoying.
    This^ is what dumbed down means, a game that was made with consoles in mind first. And money (DLC) second! ;p

    @BobsLawnService
    Nice post. Couldn't agree more.

  4. #644
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    A game is automatically considered dumbed-down if the controls are better with a controller?
    ...Okay!
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  5. #645
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    It's not just the controller, but the game was originally optimised for console gaming. Primarily.

  6. #646
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    It is about the controller, isn't it?

    Come on, I don't see how the gameplay is dumbed-down from where I see it. It's simpler in some aspects than it's predecessor like the unit attributes or the shots which are taken out from the original. But it does add some new things like overwatch and suppression. It does seem to be focused more on the combat aspect of the game rather than base management.
    Art blog here.

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  7. #647
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    I enjoyed the base element just as much as the combat in the original, and was looking forward to a classic graphically updated, rather than a re-imagining. In the new game, there are far less encounters. It is difficult to manage the time in the geoscape, which can cause problems if you are waiting for research to complete and know it would be ready to use for manufacturing [I have been close on several occasions to getting new research done before an encounter].

    Like I said in a previous post, it is the micro-management element of the game I enjoy above all else, so it is that I am complaining about mostly. And this is the very reason I feel it is dumbed down and a shadow of its former self.


    I suppose there is Xenonauts to look forward too, but one thing I liked about the new game was the graphical style. Shame it wasn't the game I envisaged.

  8. #648
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    Rather than speculate on the developer's intentions, I'd suggest this episode of Three Moves Ahead where he basically explains what they are: http://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/episod...hing-commander

    It's worth listening to as the guys do give him a hard time over many of the complaints raised here.

  9. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Rather than speculate on the developer's intentions, I'd suggest this episode of Three Moves Ahead where he basically explains what they are: http://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/episod...hing-commander

    It's worth listening to as the guys do give him a hard time over many of the complaints raised here.
    I'll admit that I don't enjoy listening to podcasts so I only listened to some random bits.

    Those random bits pretty much confirmed what I was saying.

    They lost a year and a half on an unplayable prototype (and by extension a year and a half of gameplay systems development and refinement.)

    The reason for the spawning aliens is that he thinks that aliens shooting from beyond visual range is unfair. This is a terrible and lazy solution to the problem. The cover system which was implemented late in development would help negate the problem (he doesn't seem to have an idea of how his own systems integrate with each other. More realistic line of site for both aliens and the player would do the rest of the job if combined with a solid tactical AI.

    If someone could tell me at what point he talks about the strategic layer and the randomisation of the levels I wouldn't mind listening to it.

  10. #650
    Iirc Aliens have better Nightvision (Original Xcom), thats why they usually only shoot from beyond visual Range during Night Missions.During Day Mission the Sight Ranges are the same for both Sides.

    Xcom 2012 and the Ufo Triology (Aftershock) made one Thing which made it impossible to really catch the Spirit of the first Xcom.
    They gave the soldiers Rpglike Skills.

    As the Games had to be balanced for that, it made it far more important to keep Characters alive.Therefore Combat is way less dangerous ("unfair").

    And Xcom 2012 *is* streamlined and has lost a lot of Elements ("dumbed down") to this and other Changes.

    Was being shot from the Dark unfair in the first Xcom?
    Nope, it was expected to have a lot of Casualties, this was after all a Fight for Survival against an Enemy superior in every Aspect (Technology, Physical Abilities,Numbers).
    Also you could counter every Disadvantage, for Example the Darkness with setting suspected Enemy Positions on Fire.

    Xcom 2012 made some Progress (Cover System,Gui,and the wonderful Graphics) but also lost a *lot* of the finer Details in the Process,and with it Gameplay Opportunities/Depth.

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  11. #651
    I know it sounds like I am beating up on X-Com but I really do think that with more polished design it could be an awesome game. I'd love to fight a squad of aliens that used the entire map tactically taking into account chokepoints and elevation instead of just teleporting in when I hit a certain tile. (At the moment the game is basically monster closets.) and desert/arctic maps in which cover is scarce and you have to use every bit of tactical savvy to survive. How about cornfields which obscure Line of Sight but provide no cover?

  12. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by BobsLawnService View Post
    I know it sounds like I am beating up on X-Com but I really do think that with more polished design it could be an awesome game. I'd love to fight a squad of aliens that used the entire map tactically taking into account chokepoints and elevation instead of just teleporting in when I hit a certain tile. (At the moment the game is basically monster closets.) and desert/arctic maps in which cover is scarce and you have to use every bit of tactical savvy to survive. How about cornfields which obscure Line of Sight but provide no cover?
    And I'd wish you could drive tanks and call in airstrikes in XCOM... but guess what, the wishes of me or anybody else for that matter have little to do with the quality of the game. Internet forums are so full of armchair game designers...

  13. #653
    And game development companies are full of lazy designers.

    Also Xcom has SHIVs (although they don't always work) and rocket wielding heavies in aechangel armour so the other two boxes are checked already.
    Last edited by BobsLawnService; 08-12-2012 at 08:51 PM. Reason: added snark.

  14. #654
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    Do you know what ironic means Bob. :D

  15. #655
    Anyway, so I'm doing another stab at Classic Ironman. Month 3, Operation Burning Ring,terror attack in Marseilles. What do I get. Six Cyberdiscs, no less, each accompanied by a drone. No other alien types. WTF XCOM? Somehow I pulled through with the loss of only a single non-essential team member, but still, that was a little too much, wasn't it??

  16. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by valuum View Post
    This is exactly how I feel as well, except a few more hours and on normal (shush). I was really enjoying it, and started up a second game right away. But I just.. didnt play it, and dont feel like it. Maybe in a few months, or if they release a proper expansion/DLC..
    I could've sworn when I bought XCOM it'd have the longevity of the original game, or Civilization -- or at least get close to it.

    Uninstalled after beating classic. There's so many reasons why, but I think the main one is the linearity. There's one right way to do the strategy layer (rush satellites, avoid labs, get engineers, skip lasers, go plasma) and one right way to do the tactical battles (inching up one bit at a time, taking care to avoid enemies, never dashing).

    I think the way to fix this would have been to introduce an Alien strategic AI that dynamically adjusts to what you're doing. Instead, the Alien AI just randomly attacks random cities with random units. It feels like I'm playing a wall, not an intelligent opponent. Also, the maps needed to be much, much bigger and more varied, with a functioning tactical-level AI that doesn't just sit idly around.

    The DLC is just an insult. It's like they're rubbing it in. Jake Solomon -- by all accounts a nice guy -- went from a really promising designer to a joke, who clearly doesn't understand anything about how to make games. Four years, and this is the XCOM he produces? I hope he never designs another game, frankly. He should make like Jon Shafer and leave Firaxis by "mutual agreement" ASAP. Maybe Stardock is hiring?
    Last edited by georgetownhoya; 09-12-2012 at 01:27 AM.

  17. #657
    Legitimate criticisms of XCOM, like behaviour of the strategic AI or map variety are one thing. But calling Jake Solomon a joke whou should never make a game again is a clear symptom of having PEANUTS FOR BRAINS.

  18. #658
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    Especially in the context of the game's release, which to be frank is still a fucking miracle

  19. #659
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    All things considered, I would have rather they not released a linear experience. Which after playing the game, is exactly what you get by Jake removing the things that annoyed him in the original game.

  20. #660
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    Shifting from the mechanical to the aesthetic, I'm on a Jeff Wayne kick because of the new version* of his War of the Worlds musical, and I've tracked down the soundtrack for the old PC game based on it. Bits of this one really remind me a lot of the new XCOM music, if it were remixed by Frank Klepacki. The paddy bits around 0:50 and 1:30, mainly.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrhAuiUU6fs

    I really like the new XCOM music, by the way. It's even more Deus Exy than the same guy's Deus Ex music, but that's hardly a bad thing.

    *definitely a mixed bag, mostly leaning towards 'christ the original is so much better,' but not entirely without merit
    Last edited by Gwilym; 09-12-2012 at 04:34 AM.

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